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Sun Mar 8 2009 08:51:47

Beware Selling Designer Goods on eBay

By: Ina Steiner

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The Atlanta Journal-Constitution newspaper published an article today, "Battle over bag: Seller loses out in online sale." Reporter Allison Young (spotlight@ajc.com) highlights a case where a seller - with a receipt for a Louis Vuitton handbag - loses a dispute with a buyer.

PayPal then apparently compounded the problem: "But on Jan. 6, PayPal withdrew the disputed $1,275 from Wright's PayPal account. Then in an apparent mistake, PayPal took an additional $1,200 out of Wright's personal checking account, which was linked to her now-empty PayPal account."

The Journal-Constitution article shows just one of the challenges of selling designer items on eBay - and in this economy, more and more people may find themselves in a similar situation.

The seller profiled in the Atlanta newspaper article is a lawyer specializing in consumer issues. It appears that only after the newspaper's inquiry did PayPal agree to refund the seller for the bag, shipping and sales fees.

As for the buyer in the case, she was told to send the handbag to Dallas. To learn more about what happens to handbags sent to Texas, read the AuctionBytes article, "Where Do eBay Fakes Go to Die?" The article ran in July along with an accompanying blog post ("PayPal's Handling of Counterfeits Raises Questions") that received 60 comments.

Oh, and by the way,...sellers who want to avoid dealing with PayPal may not have a choice, as eBay has transitioned to an electronics payment only marketplace.

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Perminate Link for Beware Selling Designer Goods on eBay   Beware Selling Designer Goods on eBay

by: and no ...

Sun Mar 8 23:41:20 2009

calling all who call you into question aren't part of the vast ebay-wing conspiracy ... just answer the question ... can you?

Perminate Link for Beware Selling Designer Goods on eBay   Beware Selling Designer Goods on eBay

by: how do you figure its not relevant

Sun Mar 8 23:48:43 2009

"Further, the fact the buyer's first language isn't English has little relevance to the entire transaction."

How is that not relevant? They can't read, and thus inappropriately and/or incorrectly report a claim to PayPal. That's not relevant? It's not relevant that they don't know how to communicate to the seller something so simple as "I don't like the size?"

Are you kidding? How is any of that not relevant? Some of these quandries are created by the users of the system, rather than the system itself. Some, not all. I will repeat: SOME, NOT ALL. Sounds like that is the case here.

That doesn't excuse why some button pusher dipped into the seller's account a second time, but that's another issue entirely.

Unfortunatly, here on MingBytes, there is no focus on the issues that are up for discussion. Instead we have lots of high and mighty and yet hitherto unexplained concepts shouted from the hilltops such as "Goverment regulation!" It would be great to understand what specifically you have in mind. Please stop trembling from joy of having something to get nasty about in order to explain what you might possibly see as the next logical step in your master plan.

Perminate Link for Beware Selling Designer Goods on eBay   Beware Selling Designer Goods on eBay

This user has validated their user name. by: Ming the Merciless

Mon Mar 9 01:38:32 2009

PayPal and credit companies give buyers/customers few choices when it comes to filing claims.

One can, for example, file a SNAD complaint and a complaint with a credit card company if an uninsured ebay purchase arrives broken, and the buyer will win. This is why sellers should require insurance.

The last time I looked, there was no option to list "I don't like it" as a reason to return so buyers are forced through lack of adequate choices to pick any of the above.

The buyer chose the most common reason for return and then went on the say in the newspaper article that the purse's handle appeared "worn" demonstrating that her command of English wasn't rudimentary.

I stand by my statement, therefore, that the buyer's claim of less than perfect comprehension of English has little to do with her return or the reversal.

The fact is that a buyer can return an item for a full refund just because it arrived on Friday the 13th or any other valid or silly reason, and PayPal will reverse the payment if the seller hasn't already issued the refund.

Yes, Ming Bites Back! With FACTS.

Perminate Link for Beware Selling Designer Goods on eBay   Beware Selling Designer Goods on eBay

This user has validated their user name. by: Ming the Merciless

Mon Mar 9 01:41:35 2009

To all the ebay minions dispatched here to kill the messengers of anti-ebay sentiment:

The definition of government intervention seems pretty clear to me. This topic has been discussed ad nauseum on these blogs in the last year, so I suggest you read the archives.

The list of agencies that could if they chose legitimately investigate ebay for a long laundry list of questionable policies and activities is quite long so read the archives.

I'm not wasting any more of my time arguing with ebay trolls and plants.

Perminate Link for Beware Selling Designer Goods on eBay   Beware Selling Designer Goods on eBay

by: DING-DONG

Mon Mar 9 07:26:59 2009

@Ming the Merciless
"Ebay will continue its bullying ways until they're brough down through lawsuits THAT GO TO TRIAL and/or a government investigation involving the SEC, IRS, FTC, and USDoJ."

  Ming... I feel the same way as you do...  In this case.. it's just lucky.. that the "victim" (seller) had been an attorney... but what about all the other suckers ebay and paypal played .

 As for bringing Ebay and Paypal into the Limelight... or putting them under the microscope of various city, state,and Governmental agencies...
 
I'm under the impression... that have far too much clout with Public Relations.. to cover their backs.

  And the fun hasn't even really begun yet... WAIT AND SEE.. IF MEG WINS THE GOVERNORS SEAT IN CALIFORNIA....

A word to all those who constantly stand up for Ebay and Paypal.... Just remember.... YOU COULD BE THEIR NEXT VICTIM... ! Those chances are Good

Perminate Link for Beware Selling Designer Goods on eBay   Beware Selling Designer Goods on eBay

by: DING-DONG

Mon Mar 9 07:36:23 2009

@Ming the Merciless
"I'm not wasting any more of my time arguing with ebay trolls and plants."

     Have alittle heart Ming.. LOL.. THOSE EBAY TROLLS AND PLANTS...no longer have the "'EBAY FORUM BOARDS' to LURK ,MOCK,- and NO LONGER HAVE CONTROL WHAT CAN AND CAN'T BE SAID (off ebay)...... ROFL

  They're nothing more than old TOM CATS ...thinking that THEY ARE THE VOICES OF ALL...
WRONG ! IT'S "WE THE PEOPLE"... NOT "WE THE EBAY TROLLS".. ROFL

 They're just looking for alittle amusement.... If they LOVE EBAY SO MUCH...
how come they're not on ebay .. rather than HERE ? ROFLMAO....

Perminate Link for Beware Selling Designer Goods on eBay   Beware Selling Designer Goods on eBay

by: Grimm Reaper

Mon Mar 9 09:16:46 2009

@ DING-DONG

It's not hard to be in both places, like I suspect you are too. The real question is if you hate eBay so much, what you are doing here or there?

eBay has a lot of clout over you only because you allow it to happen.

Perminate Link for Beware Selling Designer Goods on eBay   Beware Selling Designer Goods on eBay

by: Not Surprised

Mon Mar 9 09:24:39 2009

I hope this does something do cause some govt intervention or investigation too. That "Where do ebay fakes go to die" situation was something else.
Furthermore, the second paragraph in this post, about PP taking funds, then more funds -from the victim's bank account- is quite telling. I have had  the same thing happen to me, yet the shills on the ebay forums chose to call me every name in the book when I stated such.
It is a fact. Paypal can and will rob your bank account. Then deny or dance around that fact.
Well, I think we all know who the real liars and criminals are.

I am with you Mr. Ming. Death to these crooks. The sooner the better. There are other places out there to buy & sell.

Perminate Link for Beware Selling Designer Goods on eBay   Beware Selling Designer Goods on eBay

by: Ask Ming this question

Mon Mar 9 11:03:55 2009

"The real question is if you hate eBay so much, what you are doing here or there?"

Perminate Link for Beware Selling Designer Goods on eBay   Beware Selling Designer Goods on eBay

by: Say it ain't so

Mon Mar 9 11:05:31 2009

"The definition of government intervention seems pretty clear to me. This topic has been discussed ad nauseum on these blogs in the last year, so I suggest you read the archives."

Weak. Lazy. Unimpressive. Typical.

Perminate Link for Beware Selling Designer Goods on eBay   Beware Selling Designer Goods on eBay

This user has validated their user name. by: Ming the Merciless

Mon Mar 9 14:34:48 2009

Here's what the the pathetic trolls don't want you to see regarding the PayPal story in Sunday's "Atlanta Journal Constitution:"

The reporter's email address is spotlight@ajc.com.

Those of you with PayPal issues should email this reporter so that this newspaper at least understands that this seller's story is far from unique and why PayPal needs immediate government intervention.

Perminate Link for Beware Selling Designer Goods on eBay   Beware Selling Designer Goods on eBay

by: Daisy

Mon Mar 9 14:43:41 2009

This would make a good undercover type story for Dateline to investigate. I'd love to know what they do with that merchandise.

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by: Grimm Reaper

Mon Mar 9 14:47:05 2009

''PayPal needs immediate government intervention.''

You live in your own world, don't you. The government is on their side, not yours!

You can control your own destiny; but it requires you stopping to focus on things that don't work for you.

Perminate Link for Beware Selling Designer Goods on eBay   Beware Selling Designer Goods on eBay

by: On Lies and Secrets

Mon Mar 9 15:40:04 2009

I am glad that the AJC ran this piece and I would like to see a lot more careful, investigative reporting of Ebay/Paypal's practices with respect to individuals who sell on ebay and how they are treated by this company.  Sellers are consumers of both ebay and paypal's services - they are customers and their experiences on the site are important and their rights should be protected.

Perminate Link for Beware Selling Designer Goods on eBay   Beware Selling Designer Goods on eBay

by: Trish

Mon Mar 9 17:55:39 2009

Anyone stupid enough to buy OR sell anything of high value on ebay (and, accept paypal) in this day and age, pretty much deserves what they get.

Perminate Link for Beware Selling Designer Goods on eBay   Beware Selling Designer Goods on eBay

by: theo the me ow

Tue Mar 10 00:27:15 2009

re: you did what , is correct.

Those of you who link your primary life savings or checking to paypal and then give ebay your main credit cards for payment get what you deserve.

How can you be so dumb.

I've said it to friends many times, never link your main checking or savings to any service that has the ability to access your account in such a way.

Every time the make a mistake or not you are the one that will pay for it and in the end, you get a empty sorry while your Rent/mortgage is due, checks bounce and credit spirals downwards.

Even if they fix it it does not fix the damages caused to your credit, peace of mind etc... And if your living month to month then that money could have been your rent money and you would be on your way to a Eviction.

Then you only get a oops, sorry and we put it back in , so just shut up and go away attitude.

Really, people.

If they tried that with my linked bank account I'd laugh. And if the bank was dumb enough to give it to them I'd laugh even harder. And then file a small claims suit against them and see if they show. fortunately I live in California where I can get my hands on those crooks without a plane ticket.

Just Open up a savings or free checking account online or at your bank [ not the one you have your main savings/checking at] and put only a little money in it to keep it active.

Do not link any other accounts to it for overdraft and do not authorize any overdrafts from Credit cards and do not link those also.

The reason you do not open the account at your main bank is because if PP/EB had of pulled that scenario and your account was empty and they forced the withdrawal then the bank would automatically go for your other account.

This cannot happen if there is no other account, in that case they will either deny PP/EB the withdrawal of the funds as NSF. Then in this case PP has to explain why they tried to do it in the first place and prove it was valid if they want their money from you.

At this point you can take them to small claims for the amount they say you owe them and see if they even bother to show for $1200. if they do not then you win and they lose by default.

Im sure their lawyers have more bigger money to deal with.

Either way you are more in control and theirs hands are not on your money or your life.

Haven't you heard enough of the horror stories yet.

Think it cant happen to you.

ha ha, I got a guy that emailed me to purchase something just right in my neighborhood and what a coincidence he had a whopper of a PP story about what they just did to him.

Stop leaving your PP accounts with so much money in them. Every time your account gets to a certain amount like $250 [ or based on what would hurt you most to lose] then send yourself a check or transfer the money into your bank account then transfer it out [or write check] into a unlinked account where they cant touch it.

Now that Ebay is practically forcing Pp down our throats you will have few options to go somewhere else.

Perminate Link for Beware Selling Designer Goods on eBay   Beware Selling Designer Goods on eBay

by: Joyful

Tue Mar 10 13:07:46 2009

The government intervention needed is for PayPal to be declared a bank and have to follow FDIC rules.

Perminate Link for Beware Selling Designer Goods on eBay   Beware Selling Designer Goods on eBay

by: LegendsOfBatman

Tue Mar 10 15:58:14 2009

PayPal Policy Update!
PayPal will now take your money and NOT return the item if it is CLAIMED to have been fake.

"Beginning April 8, 2009 the PayPal User Agreement is being amended as follows:

Section 13.4 is being amended to include the following language:

“If you lose a Significantly Not as Described Claim because the item you sold is counterfeit, you will be required to provide a full refund to the buyer and you will not receive the item back (it will be destroyed).”

Further, I have mentioned several times throughout the internet where these "double charges" are becoming more and more commonplace.
I know someone personally who sent $2000 to their daughter, yet paypal doubled up, and withdrew $4000, and refused to reimburse her; until talk of lawyers and lawsuits came in.

My question to those who have been claiming that Ebay and PayPal are no different than other companies is, "When have you heard of these situations occuring more and more frequently?" My guess is, You havent, and if you claim it has, you're lying.
Sure, companies make errors. BUT, they usually reverse those errors. They may take time to investigate, make sure they really happened, but, they investigate. Not so with PayPal. They argue and prolong matters.

They need to be investigated and then penalized. Heavily.

That's my opinion, for what it's worth.
Tim
http://forums.delphiforums.com/boycottebay/start
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