Disconnect at eBay as It Moves toward Amazonification

by: mindelec

The managers I've spoken with at DevCon and eBay Live seem focused and determined, and believe in the projects they are working on. I was very impressed with Jamie Iannone's "belief in his vision of search (though I'm not sure eBay as a catalog is better than eBay the way it is now, though it may only be rolled out in certain categories where it makes sense). "

i read friday night that this is the vision for the books category which is where i sell.  on saturday i went to both the finding and the media booths an asked "what is this? what will it look like?"  nobody could tell me anything :-(

by: Raia

Hey Lorrie!

Open mouth, insert loafer!

LMHO! :D

by: Terry

Regardless of what Ebay does there is really no place to go that has the visabilty that you get here. Anyone know of a site that works.

by: stylephyle

Why has nobody mentioned the BIGGEST disconnect of all? Amazon has NO SUCH THING as a npb! By the time the order shows up on my list and the item removed from my inventory, the buyer has already paid or I'd never see them at all!  So buyers really want the item and have no reason to attempt to extort me with feedback.   Also, how can an auction have a search engine that does not, by default, show items ending first?? That is a no-brainer for an auction site! Amazon is NOT an auction site - my listings stay up until they're sold.  I used to list equally on both sites because both worked for different things, but ebay became a money loser after the search algorhythm changed and buyers no longer felt the need to pay for items. Sales - down  Bad feedback and UPIs UP UP UP!  Ebay is flat out lying when they say UPIs didn't go up overall.

by: Norm

All said and done, ebay has turned it's deaf ear to all of us. We can rant and rave and beat our heads against their corp brick wall and end up with a headache. Or walk away. I personally don't like what they are doing, but I like auctioning. There must be a well connected very sharp group out there that gets the ''real ebay'' concept we all fell in love with and can start a new one! Hint Skip and Ina. You two write about it, talk about it and blog about it with a passion! What a winning team!

by: Peter Leeflang/CEO of Leeflang Archives Corporatio

Ebay executives who think the way to get buyers back is to copy Amazon, never understood their core successfactor, nor do they understand the reason for their failing or that they are accelerating that failure process now with tehir new implementations.

Ebay initially suceeded ACCIDENTALLY, because they were a totally free marketplace, as free and global as none was before.

It was an amazing 'lucky find' by an unlikely owner, the socialist Pierre Omidyar. Unfortunately that little flaw 'the socialist component' is what became its undoing.

No company nor individual can hold a contradiction, so contrary views of what the world shoudl be, so freedom, laisse-faire cannotlive together with socialism in teh same place.

One has to budge.

In this case unfortunately socialism (grown into a major dictatorial degree) won out because no one was there to defend the opposite, the laissez-faire component of Ebay.

The eerie part is that it seems also  the way America is heading for.

by: Cowbell

eBay and turn into a feeble imitation of Amazon if it wants, but it will never be Amazon.

I know this because 90% of my inventory is now resting comfortably over at Amazon.

I have no NPBs, no upfront costs, and no wasted fees on items that don't sell.

Why do I need another Amazon? I already have one.

by: Ray

It is great to hear from a bunch of other sellers.  I agree with everything that is being said 100%
It seems like some of the people running eBay are uneducated or are in a dream world.  So far few of the changes eBay has made have helped either the buyers and sellers.  When Sellers leave, this means there is a smaller selection of unique products on eBay (especially when smaller sellers leave) and this causes buyers to search other venues for the products they need.  The more sellers leave=the more buyers that leave.  Right now eBay has made all these changes for the buyers but they forget one vital thing.  The sellers are what make eBay.  If it wasn't for all of us, then their would be no eBay.  I hope eBay begins to make some changes that actually help sellers and their businesses.  I mean how does diamond power seller help most of us?  Also the reason for more buy it now's being sold is because now buyers dont see the items ending soonest but the items sold by sellers with the highest ratings.  These items are usually buy it now's.  Also because items that are ending soonest are not displayed correctly, they get less bids or they end for a lower price than expected causing sellers to offer more buy it now auctions.  Making eBay another amazon would only make things worse because it really cant compete with amazon and it would lose most of its sellers=lose most of its buyers.  Also if things get real negative for ebay, the news will talk about it and people will stop using it at all most likely.  Now this is all if eBay keeps making these changes and if it turns into an amazon like setup.

by: Ben

Hi,


You may have noticed that eBays search page layout has changed recently, and that the opt-out function to keep the old layout is being removed in four weeks time.

If you've not seen it yet you can check it out at http://playground.ebay.co.uk/. It's based around lots and lots of very annoying pop up java windows. It looks and feels like an interface that's in Alpha testing, let alone a finished product.

This topic has caused a massive stink in the eBay community over the past couple of days, and if you use eBay a lot and this really annoys you, and you would like to keep the old layout, or at least keep the option to opt out of the new layout then maybe you'd like to sign this petition.

http://www.petitiononline.com/eBaySch/petition.htmlR>
Hope you don't mind me posting this here, but we need to get as many signitures as possible.

by: Sonya

by: billieboy
Sat Jun 21 16:19:11 2008
Looks like Lorrie got a neg back in 2006 for being an NPB...
A high ranking eBay exec is a non paying bidder....lovely..
perhaps this explains the new feedback policy..

Well here's something alot of you do not know... ex eBay and present eBay employers know the inside/outs of the way eBay and Paypal operate.

I have read somewhere of these eBay and Paypal employers who win items on eBay and then file a claim with Paypal of non-receipt and Paypal as always awards the buyer your money and they get the item and refund for the item they received.

These people work or worked for ebay and PP and they know how every scam known. A few ebay/PP whistleblowers have outed this.  

by: fishinjoe58

EBAY SUCKS!
And I will never sell there again!

by: Charli

I don't understand EBay. Are they trying to destroy the company?
They seem bent on alienating the very people that make Ebay what it is, the small unique venders that choose to sell on ebay.
The problem is that the PTB (powers that be) can't seem to see beyond the almighty profit, so much so that they think by whoring out Ebay to big companies is going to get them more profit....it won't.... because there won't be any reason for people to come to ebay. Once people stop coming Ebay is DEAD!
And this time, unlike during the UniteEbay campaign (2004), there are other auction sites out there that can and will give Ebay a run for their money.
I hope that the founder of Ebay, Pierre Omidyar is watching and that he will step in and prevent EBays destruction. This always seems to happen when a company is given to others and they don't continue the vision. The problem in my mind is that often these aren't people who understand and love selling. They are instead business school Nazi's who only have book learning without the passion and love that creates a good salesperson. We see examples all over the place.
Look at Wal-mart (whose owner wanted US made goods sold in his stores at a good price), Wendy's (which has moved past giving good food to their customers and replaced healthier items with pseudo-healthy items. An example is the sour cream. It's no longer sour cream but rather a "low calorie/fat" substitute that is nothing but chemicals). I bet everyone could add at least 1 more place....the list is endless. Vision is replaced by greed and everyone loses.
I will miss Ebay when it dies.  I hope this time that the sellers stand their ground.  I also hope that the shoppers will be alerted and educated about what's going on.  We need to create websites that will inform shoppers of their choices and also support the other auction sites that are trying to compete with EBay.  
If we can create more competition with Ebay then they will have to change or die.

by: Laptopbroker

It is with considerable sadness that we acknowledge that we have more-or-less stopped selling on eBay. The idea that one-size fits all (only eBay tools, only Paypal payments) does not fit us.

As a big seller, the idea that eBay would move to shut down the likes of ChannelAdvisor and others severely impacts us. We forecast this happening last year when Amazon stock was pulling away, and eBay stock was continuing to languish over the same period. We knew that absent some original eBay thinking, the best they could do would be to copy them.

With considerable investment over many years, we had built highly efficient processes to sell and service on the eBay platform. However, at our company meeting in February of 2007 we announced a strategic decision to shut down eBay sales in favor of our own platform. It was important that we share what we were thinking with our team, because it would be obvious to our employees that we were going to be going from hundreds of eBay orders to nothing: our preliminary financial data showed only about a 1.4% net profit margin on our entire 2006 eBay sales. With any fee increases or change in our fraud exposure, it was probable that we would be in the red.

With a lot of pain, and some significant additional investment, this was accomplished. Our own site was proven to be able to produce as much top-line sales as we were previously having on eBay-- with better order management, direct customer service, and above all: better cash flow, better profitability, and no surprises.

We had other benefits: we could choose whatever pay service we wanted (with Paypal in the running), and negotiate the fee structure using our volume as leverage. Consistent with our previous experience, Paypal was disinterested in addressing our concerns regarding chargebacks, fees, fraud, and similar business issues, so we elected to not take Paypal on the site.

It is certainly true that we grew our business to a multi-million dollar enterprise from just a seed on eBay. However, it is difficult for us to imagine how this type of growth could be successfully replicated by a new seller in eBay's new world. With everything being homogenized (listings, payment service, search, notifications, etc) so all sellers become and ''look'' the same, it appears that the only way to sell will be to be the low-price leader. But in a race to the bottom of low-single-digit margins, no company will grow to critical mass like we were able to do in the past. Thus, the outcome of that game is already known: guys like us (with buying power) will step out of the eBay tent and directly compete with lower-priced products that dont have eBay percentages built in, have lower payment service fees negotiated, etc. We've proven it can be done.

Doug Deist
Laptopbroker

by: steve

I agree with the previous poster...that photo speaks volumes.  Are they all constipated or was having to meet sellers face to face just too much for them?

A company can not exist without happy customers, and for the millionth time, YOUR SELLERS ARE YOUR CUSTOMERS EBAY!!!! WHAT PART OF THIS DO YOU NOT GET?????  It will be your downfall and those same sellers will love dancing on your grave and their expressions will be much happier than those gloomy gusses in that photo.

by: Misty

Ina


The below article was posted on the seller central discussion board earlier today by someone who claims to be inside eBay management… this post was pulled by eBay moments later.
_______________________________________

I posted this at the feedback forum at eBay but it was killed by staff less than a minute later. I should have known. My ID will be toast soon anyway. This was the only other place I thought where my statement might have an impact. Do with it what you will. After Chicago, my only desire is to be heard.

There will be those who will not believe me and I sympathize. I wish the facts were fiction but to deny what I know would be to live in a fairyland of make-believe. I understand that the bulk of this “manifesto” reveals a plot so against the spirit of eBay that it will be dismissed as lie. So be it. I cannot force the world to accept it. All I can do is state the truth as I know it and leave it to you and to your common sense and experience to judge.

The deck is stacked against me. Aside from the natural resistance to believe I know that the boards are stocked with eBay’s tools. Their goal will be to discredit me. I will be accused of being a “disgruntled”, “paranoid”, and “emotional” seller. Their words will be specially chosen for effect. That is part of the function of the tools and I am not fazed by it. However, to protect my own identity within the corporation, I cannot be too specific lest the details single me out to the powers that be.

What I intend to reveal is common knowledge to many in the management division behind the scenes.

By the way, the tools are not only the mouthpieces that promote the policies. The psychological tactics employed by the powers that be are far deeper and grander than that. The subtlety of the method is remarkable. The tools come in a wide range of flavors with their own, individual “characteristic” rhetoric. From those who are “for” the policy - and spread various degrees of hostility toward the sellers - to those who are “against” the change - and spread panic and further the divide with the buyers. Both serve the same exact purpose: a manipulation designed to remove the more involved and savvy small to large sellers who will not fit into eBay’s future business plan.

First, let me correct the record regarding the concept of sellers extorting positive feedback. While the violation was known to happen, the activity amounted to less than a tenth of a percent of the yearly transactions. Further, it involved sellers whose feedback percentages were below 80%. The absolute majority of sellers did not engage in such practices. Nevertheless, the powers that be could not resist the fact that promoting this notion of feedback extortion as a wide-spread phenomenon would be the perfect cover with which to hide the true intentions of the policy.

The powers that be want to transform eBay into an overstock warehouse venue. A kind of outlet store for the internet much like a cheaper and streamlined version of Amazon. From a strictly business point of view, given the size of eBay and the growing costs of doing business, it makes a certain kind of sense to shift gears. Think about it: when eBay started, sellers were about rare and unique items but here and now the majority of items are common, used counterparts of what can be found new online at retail sites. Truly rare and unique items are sold at real auctions; the “stuff in your attic” isn’t glamorous enough and won’t keep eBay afloat any longer.

The trend away from the rare and unique to the big box retailer is not new. Several years ago the powers that be noticed that the big “powersellers” were simply listing items that existed in their retail stores or inventories. Thus the concept of “buy it now”, “best offer”, and “eBay stores” were created. It was the nascent stage of the plan yet to be. Little by little, without the population noticing, the mechanisms required to replicate the average retail storefront were already in place - and with its rise came the slow, steady downfall of the auction format.

Yet outright pursuit of a retail venue would have led to a major problem that at the time could not have been surmounted. The vast majority of people, on and off line, know eBay as precisely the place for auctions of rare and unique items. The sellers and buyers held onto that perception too but in truth their opinion even involvement in new and improved version of eBay is irrelevant by a certain Machiavellian calculation made by the powers that be. As part of the plan, eBay calculated thus: even if they lost the sellers as part of the change, the buyers will be coming back to buy regardless of who or what operated within the retail-outlet venue.

No, it was the stock holders who the powers that be feared.

Only the stockholders had the power to change the direction set forth by the CEO and the board. So it became imperative to change the equation. Part of the plan is to devalue the stock gradually so that investors merely dumped the stock as opposed to wanting managerial change ala Yahoo. Then to buy back the stock at lower cost and to such a volume that no rebellion against the powers that be were possible.

By the end of July that phase of the plan will be successful and there est of the plan will be revealed without fear of backlash from those who otherwise would have had the power to pull eBay back from the brink.
Indeed, if you believe the current changes are obvious signals that small sellers are not wanted - be prepared - you have seen nothing yet.

So far what have they done? All they have managed to do is silence a seller’s ability to warn others about buyers (half of the purpose behind the original idea of feedback), burden you with higher and higher fees, dangle “treats” like discounts while setting the bar of eligibility so high that the rewards cannot be reached. and, by the way PayPal deals with “complaints” leave you vulnerable to fraud. What if worse was yet to come?

They know if you do not feel safe that you will not use eBay. The changes that have been enacted only eliminates the small sellers. Meanwhile they want to eradicate the mid-sized seller too. And they want to ensure that both do not return.

For the mid-sized seller the DSR became the tool of choice. The powers that be raised the level of what is a good seller artificially high. No manipulation is required; they know exactly the effect of the policy. This is why buyers are told that 4 is a good score and sellers are told that 4.9 yields discounts and higher listing placements. As long as that fractured point of view exists, eBay does not need to interfere with the DSR as has been suggested, the buyers will be killing the sellers naturally.

By August there will be no pretense and the intentions of the new and improved eBay will be clear. The following is only a partial list of the rules that will be imposed. It comes from a memo that circulated within my corner of the managerial department the week before Chicago. I cannot be too specific about certain items and I cannot reveal details of the latest additions without endangering my anonymity.

1. Neutrals will be converted to negatives complete with red icons and reduced feedback scores. Afterward neutrals will not be offered as a choice of feedback.

2. The entire process of feedback will be automated. Buyers and sellers will chose standard feedback from a list. For sellers this operation will be performed automatically upon the buyer winning. For buyers there will be an extra free line with which to add a few comments about the seller without restriction to content. Replies will not be allowed.

3. The implementation of a stricter rules regarding shipping. From the boxes, packing, labels and tapes to where you can buy postage. Orders have been placed for prototypes of “eBay” boxes. UPS and FedEx will be instructed not to accept “eBay” merchandise if it’s not inside “eBay” boxing. They will know, of course, because when sellers buy the “eBay” postage from the “eBay” source, a detailed list of contents with item numbers will be available to the shippers upon scanning a bar code. As for those who continue to use USPS, another level of quality control will be implemented - buyers will be asked, upon confirmation of delivery, if the seller used “eBay” standard shipping items. Naturally, no verification of the buyer’s truthfulness will be attempted, and continued ‘infractions’ will result in suspension. eBay will have other ways to check if a seller is not using the “eBay” equipment - as they will be required to buy at cost the supplies immediately after items are listed. (This is such a large scale operation behind the scenes that I feel comfortable sharing as much of it as I know.)

4. Sales taxes will be included automatically; shipping cost and sales taxes will be used to determined FVF.

5. Item descriptions will be “standardized” with templates which include the posting of a new, universal return policy. Only yearly subscribers to the retail-outlet venue can opt out of these universal return policies but even they cannot alter the template structures being devised.

6. Strikes against buyers will be eliminated as the whole concept of a buyer and bidding will be altered. FVF will be calculated when payment is submitted.

7. Time to Close will be eliminated entirely. Best Match will be the non-alterable default. Best Match is a system that caters to the needs of shoppers not bidders.

8. Placement within Best Match will be determined by several factors, the most important of which will be the extra display features added onto the listing.

9. DSRs can be removed by retailers and powersellers who pay a certain yearly fee.

10. The end play itself which consists of four phases:
a) the main focus shifts to retail sellers whose fees are on a per listing basis
b) stores will be replaced by a classified section, fees will be based on yearly subscriptions and FVFs
c) occasional auctions will be conducted for unique items (celebrity auctions, items that have been featured on the news, etc.)
d) total elimination of auctions for regular sellers.

From the point of view of eBay’s agenda to change gears these alteration make sense. The powers that be want to turn eBay into a retail venue format. Therefore the “buyer” must be changed - bidding and commitments to buy are part of the past. In a retail venue, the item is either in your cart or not and you only commit to buy when you pay at checkout. The seller is also redefined in the way they will be required to do business. They will be forced to copy the methods of retail stores.

The goal is to become Amazon Lite. Unlike Amazon the merchandise will be stocked by the retailers in their warehouses, eBay will be just an electronic centralized venue for outlet sale - a “trusted” name with a wide customer base and popular name recognition.

That is the future and as I write this I know that it cannot be stopped. There are no investors with enough clout and will to challenge the CEO. Stock holders will simply walk away. eBay will not sink, however, it will be exactly in the position its rulers intend it to be at.

Sellers, my advice is simple. You are not wanted. Leave. If you stay, you will be crushed. Leave. Go away. You cannot win.

I am sorry because for too long I have been a complicit tool behind the scenes. I was part of those teams and think tanks that spearheaded many of the “innovations” you know very well and which will be used to destroy you. I know I will not be believed. I will be mocked and ridiculed by the tools and even those who are real, actual people will be hesitant to accept what I have to say. What has been done to this community, the plots and schemes hatched in meetings and across memos, is far, far worse to endure within my soul than any treatment I will receive at the hands of the tools by posting this. You do not know how much they hate you. It is my conscience that I want to clear going forward. Again I apologize. There should have been a better way for the powers that be to effect the change they wanted for eBay - instead they succumbed to cloak and dagger deception.

RIP eBay

by: billieboy

If the above post is true and eBay intends
to become a the next Amazon there will be millions of small and medium size sellers who will need a market place for their items...There will always be a demand for auctions of everyday unique and not so unique items..
Where will they go? Someone is about to make a fortune by providing a home for the "noise" eBay no longer wishes to hear..

by: Patrick Alexander

''If the above post is true''

I don't think it is. eBay management is not smart enough to do anything that takes that much planning...


:O)

by: Julie

"And what I mean by don't get it is that they don't recognize sellers' are upset to the point of leaving."

Of COURSE they "recognize" it, Ina.  They simply do not care.  In fact, they laugh at our (sellers') pain because it is precisely what assures them that their devious plan is being executed as they want it.  They know what they are doing.  

"Misty's" post above says it all...I believe it is true.  It is something I have suspected for a few years now.  God bless the brave soul; this Ebay employee who "confessed".  At least he/she got a conscience before Ebay took his/her soul.  The rest of them will burn in hell.

by: Laura

Misty,
I have no reason to doubt what you say is true, and in fact it actually makes sense especially when its put into the context of all the changes eBay is making and plans to make. Their actions do indeed speak louder then words.

Thank you for copying and pasting it. I hope the original author knows it’s appreciated. Sellers need to know what’s going on; their families depend on it!

by: Jude

As a realist, who doesn't cotton to conspiracy theories, I at first thought, ''this should be amusing.''
As I kept reading, I thought back to a survey served up by eBay a few months back and the light-bulb lit up. It was a buying-habits survey, coupled with some templates of different item listings with generic descriptions, very unappealing and rather revealing in itself.
If the powers-that-be want to be an outlet for the likes of Walmart, Target, etc., then they may well succeed. However, the economies of scale that may have existed during the planning phase are currently overshadowed by ever-rising tranportion costs. Good luck with that.
The fact(?) that the post was pulled from the eBay boards only lends credibility to the author's assertions.