Etsy Seller Standards ODR Warning Causes Uproar

by: SammyCat

Interesting that just this morning I got an email from a woman who said she got her 'bowl' but where is the ladle.

This is a very very rare pattern and the ladle and bowl were sold separately.

The first TWO lines of the list said as much with a link to the ladle in a separate listing.  I told her as much, we will see what her response is.  

Unbelievable  

by: StickAForkInIT

About a year ago Etsy added a section to it's Seller User Manual.    One of the things it said was that if a Shop has a case opened against it, Etsy will throttle that shop for FOUR months.

I was unfortunate enough to have a case opened about a month BEFORE that announcement.  A buyer (also a seller) in the UK tried to pull the partial refund scam.  As an eBay Seller, experienced with these scams, I merely told her to return and I would pay the return shipping. She turned into a psycho leaving horrible LYING feedback, which broke Etsy's regs and was removed.  She made my life a living Hell for one month.  I made sure I was completely professional in all my responses to her. She was a raving lunatic.   Finally the Etsy rep offered her a $20 gift card (to close the case and go away.)

But she kept insisting to Etsy that she would not be happy until I was removed as a Seller and that her Feedback be put back up to show the world what a lying thieving Seller I was.  It was a classic case of Narcissistic Personality Disorder.  

The rep gave her a deadline of 24 hours to accept his offer, and she fought to the bitter end, posting line after line of ranting text.  But just moments before the deadline ended, she accepted the FREE money.

I thought the ordeal was over.   To protect my account I had to block the whole country of the UK, because Etsy doesn't have a way to block individual buyers.  Even so she sent several friends (or used alternate ID's) to try to buy from me asking what the shipping costs would be to the UK.

It was about this point that Etsy came out and clarified in their User Manual, that when a Shop has a case opened against it (regardless of whether the shop wins or loses,) that shop will have it's sales throttled for FOUR MONTHS.

And that's exactly what happened.  My thriving Etsy store died.  Literally no sales.   Then FOUR months to the day, my sales returned to normal.  (I should note that I never had a case opened against me on this account prior to that.)

MY POINT IS THAT with this ODR system, Etsy is just GOING PUBLIC about what they have been already doing behind the scenes for a while now.  It was suggested by a EU member in one of my Facebook Groups, that Etsy is being required to do this by new EU regulations which require businesses to be open and public about their policies.

Despite the fact that Etsy Sellers are now "freaking out," these policies were secret for a long time, then partially made partially public, and now completely public (maybe.)   We might not like them, but we should have the right to know the risks before committing our business to selling on a site.

Knowing the rules, in the future if I have a case, I can shutter my Etsy account for four months, not waste money on listing and promotion fees, and concentrate on my sales on other venues.

by: ignatz

"Etsy" - "ts"  +"ba" = "Ebay"

by: eBay Shill Buster

StickAForkInIT, file an online complaint with the FTC in the USA and with the EU competition agency.

https://ec.europa.eu/competition/contacts/electronic_do
cuments_en.html

by: purpleiris

"May the CEO's golden parachute be made of cheap resellers crap."

Hahaha! I'm not even going to bother commenting on this latest load of moo-poo from Etsy.

by: booklover27

Amazon is on tear a right now with their new "Suspected Intellectual Property Violations".  They actually have bots running through seller inventories that are suppose to spot violations.  Instead, with no rhyme or reason they are picking perfectly good items and deeming them as "suspected possible violations."  I have 80000+ items and received two violations on the last cycle for  perfectly legal used products.  I have been throttled to the point that my sales are practically nil and one more so-called violation and I will be suspended and have to deal with that fascist department entitled, "seller-performace".  I will probably close up after many many years of supporting them or get kicked out.  Many sellers are in my same position.

by: SammyCat

Well, the wench gave me 1 star moments ago -- quite interesting timing in lieu of the discussions we're having here today.  

Never asked to return, just kvetched that the ladle wasn't included when it was clearly stated that it was not.  Offered to find one for her and send it for free ... NO I'm just a piece of scum.  WoW

Perfect example of buyers not reading, not taking any responsibility and we get the crap.  

by: SammyCat

Sorry ... what's really sad is that not enough people that are perfectly happy never leave a review.  I get around 25% overall and a 1 star is brutal with such log review participation.  

I include a personal note thanking them, asking for a review and they do NOT.

I don't get it.  

by: purpleiris

Well, I wasn't going to comment, but thought I should go ahead and recommend that people specifically include these sort of tactics in their complaints to the AGs, DOJ and FTC (and maybe even your Congressmen? =)

These things NEVER seem to effect those they are intended to; only those that they shouldn't be effecting. Now, why on earth do you think that would be? Cheaper prices, higher sales volume vs. Local relevant items with higher prices, more selective shopping.

by: Garcia

Some stock group just recommended buying Etsy because it is the only site that has rules that require sellers to sell handmade or vintage.  It is obvious that these analysts do not do their homework and have no idea what they are recommending and go by what the company says.  Which brings me to the point that it is a crime to say something in your prospectus of your company that isn't true.  Handmade and vintage mandate is not true and I don't me the supplies also.

by: pace306

When sites cant increase buyers (such as eBay who is WAY WAY PAST "peak buyers"), the site turns on the hand that feeds it, aka Sellers and uses their money, time and items to make money for itself - since its "a g0d da_n privilege to be allowed to sell on that oh so super platform."

Thats EXACTLY eBays attitude towards sellers - which is why when they trot out some old broken down piece of trash to make announcements - what ever they say is "fake news".

No announcements they have ever made, made MORE money from sellers - only less.

eBays financial donations to its "iron clad" TOS/UA prevents it from getting into too much trouble - they can even lie cheat and steal from other CA counties - their tax funds - and no one cares.

As for Etsy, I dont sell there but my wife does. So far so good - no complaints, but my pet goldfish has more intelligence then Josh does - and being a nasty piece of trash (we are so cool and hip - look at us - we are in Brooklyn yo!) makes it easy to understand why he does what he does.

eBay is a mess, Amazon is disorganized (for selling handmade items) - so Joshy Boy knows all too well that unless you are going to open you own site - you "have no choice".

All these things will continue - because its not on anyones radar to start a fight with these people. Both wonder twins will simply say " we are "just a venue" trying to keep order and serve our buyers by putting in place simple easy to understand policies. Suing us takes the bread out of many peoples mouths - we arent doing anything wrong" ...... and the idiot politicians (both isles) believe it.

Its why CNBC and Seeking Alpha dont have the cajones to say SELL when it comes to eBay stock - they dont want to be blamed for Enron 2.0. One hand washes the other and everyone gets a piece of the action - except the poor seller. He/she is the patsy in the Mafioso game both eBay and Etsy have become.

Pay the VIG or we burn down your store. Come after us and we wack you and your store. You bring a knife, we bring a gun. Same game - different playing field.

by: SammyCat

Some of you sell on ebay?  What's better a fixed price with offers or auction?  Curious minds would like to know.

I know its a mess but would still like to know which is better even if neither is great.

Please and thank you

by: hawk

etsy claims it wants to be sure it is a trusted venue with good sellers. while spewing that garbage they turn right around and charge fees for promotions , then say they are hiding your listings if you don't pay blackmail shipping. how did these people become thieving street trash ? corruption ! keep reporting them to the state authorities , and sooner or later someone will investigate and take them down. this corruption has to stop.  

by: Life During Wartime

Etsy can't be considered a trusted venue when so many of the listings active on the site are deceptive.  There's nothing wrong with people ''rehoming'' stuff that they own or creating online boutiques to resell retail products they purchased wholesale.  Etsy isn't supposed to have shops doing that, but more than half the active shops on the site have nothing to do with handmade, vintage, or crafting supplies.

The ODR is the same type of thing as the guidelines for handmade and vintage.  Posting these in the handbook gives Etsy corporate a way to remove any shop or community member for pretty much any reason (doesn't have to be real).  Just like I was perma-muted even though 2 of the 3 strikes were NOT postings that the emails from Etsy described.  

I've seen all kinds of seller responses to low review ratings, including just plain rudeness, insults, and even fat shaming!  Yet these shops are open, they are reselling (deceptive listing practices) -- and continue to violate the handbook published rules.

It's a gamble.  You can never know when a competitor or a nutbar shopper will find your shop and start trouble.  Etsy should have the backs of its shop owners instead of finding ways to punish people who are doing the right thing and making them money.  The falling stock prices show that investors may have finally figured out that Etsy isn't actually in the business of hosting online shops, and collecting fees from their sales.

by: Lisa

i just list stuff and dont re-new or pay for anything extra. i don't even offer free shipping. and when im out of my business cards, etsy will not  be on them. Not because i am afraid of bad feedback, but i left ebay for a reason. Josh ruined a good thing.

by: purpleiris

I had actually just renewed dozens of listings about a week or so prior to reading the "seller churn" comment. Yet, I didn't hesitate to shut down my shop and not look back.

The place is run by idiots and shareholders are starting to catch on to the scam Etsy is. I will never sell there again unless seriously drastic changes are made to provide not only a seller-friendly platform, but a small-business-owner-friendly platform.

by: eBay Shill Buster

Josh was simply envious of Devin Wenig's stock options, he figures if he engages in the same Jack the Ripper fraud that Devin was conducting that he would reap the same rewards, ironic that he will reap those very same rewards soon.

by: Garcia

Etsy thinks that sellers are a dime a dozen and buyers are their bread and butter, but without sellers there can be no buyers.  One day Etsy might find that out.

by: cat_rage

Josh should be fired. He's destroying small business.  

by: ttzett

We will sue Etsy for this unfair rule. They were ridiculous.