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Fri Apr 14 2017 11:43:51

How eBay Breakup with PayPal Puts Sellers at a Disadvantage

By: Reader
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Dear Ina,
I'm not sure if many people aware of this vile PayPal policy. After 16 years, I finally got taken by a buyer and PayPal. To scam me was not the original intention of the buyer however.

I sent a Priority package to a buyer. I tracked the package after a couple days and it showed, UNDELIVERABLE as addressed. I asked the buyer about her address and she said, "Well you didn't have my apartment number on there." I explained to her that it was the address she had in eBay. She continued by saying she had left it off accidentally but ALWAYS received packages without it not being on there so its not her fault. (She only has 20 or so feedback in eBay) 

She told me since she had left it off but thought she was not at fault, to just reimburse her the cost of the item and not the shipping. I wasn't ready to do that just yet, nor would I have as I made no mistake. She then escalated it by saying that if she didn't get the item or the refund, she'd open a dispute through eBay and PayPal.  

I then called eBay. eBay told me simply that if the buyer did not have the correct address, I was protected, which is what I had thought. The next day she opened up a dispute through PayPal. 3 minutes later, PayPal closed it in her favor, WHILE I WAS RESPONDING TO THE DISPUTE!!

Apparently after PayPal and eBay parted ways, so have their policies. A PayPal agent told me that they side in case of a buyer anytime an item does not show delivered, FOR WHATEVER REASON. The only way a seller is protected IS IF IT SHOWS DELIVERED! They no longer use or research eBay's information.

So the buyer makes a mistake, and I am out my item and money at that point. She NEVER took responsibility of leaving her apartment number off her address and apparently doesn't care about me being out my funds and item. A total lowlife. My worst case in nearly 40,000 transactions.

PayPal has become more evil than eBay has ever been. I never had problems with them in the past. My last three "situations" with PayPal have been horrific for different reasons. And I thought my past issues with eBay were bad.

Best,
Keith



Comments (30) | Permalink
Readers Comments

How eBay Breakup with PayPal Puts Sellers at a Dis   How eBay Breakup with PayPal Puts Sellers at a Dis
This user has validated their user name. by: iheartjacksparrow
       
Fri Apr 14 13:58:02 2017
@Keith - If the item was "undeliverable as addressed," you should have received the package back. I've had two incidents while selling on eCrater where the buyer failed to include an apartment number, and the packages were returned to me. (There would have been a third time but, luckily, he had placed a big order with me before and I remembered he lived in an apartment complex.)

It takes two to three weeks for a package to arrive back. From my experience, the post office holds the package for a week to see if the recipient shows up looking for it, and if not, they then return the package back to the sender.

In your case, I think you should have advised your buyer that as soon as you have your item back in your hands that you would refund the cost of the item only and then she could have re-purchased if desired.

I just want to add that it amazes me that people living in multi-family dwellings don't think about the consequences of leaving off their unit number. They should know the post office is not going to spend time looking up that information as they have more important things to do.
How eBay Breakup with PayPal Puts Sellers at a Dis   How eBay Breakup with PayPal Puts Sellers at a Dis
This user has validated their user name. by: Rexford
       
Fri Apr 14 14:25:03 2017
Love the buyer's "not my fault" mentality.

Of course both eBay and PayPal do nothing but re-enforce this behavior.
How eBay Breakup with PayPal Puts Sellers at a Dis   How eBay Breakup with PayPal Puts Sellers at a Dis
by: Scotty This user has validated their user name.
       
Fri Apr 14 16:50:45 2017
You also have to watch with this situation wherein the USPS leaves a ''notice'' for the recipient ''No Safe Place to Leave Package''.  In this situation, it can appear as if it is being returned due to the scan, but in actuality, the recipient can go pick it up.  During this process, they can do exactly what happened to the OP...get their money back and gleefully go pick up their package as it will not be returned if they claim it.  Yet another scam that Paypal and eBay in their knee-jerk anti-seller reactions are not prepared to deal with...
It's been said before, take the buyer to small claims court and make them pay all related expensed...NO MATTER WHAT THE AMOUNT!!!  This is the ONLY way this type of thing will get press and the ONLY WAY eBay or Paypal will respond.  If this was done to me, I don't care if it is for $5...I would drag their a$$ into court as this is nothing less than theft.  If not, suck it up as there are no other options.
How eBay Breakup with PayPal Puts Sellers at a Dis   How eBay Breakup with PayPal Puts Sellers at a Dis
This user has validated their user name. by: RKTOYS
       
Fri Apr 14 17:23:25 2017
Don't think you're safe from this on Amazon either.  Amazon will ignore delivery confirmation too.  Why should they, it's not their money or inventory they're giving away.  At least the post office treats mail fraud like the crime it is.
How eBay Breakup with PayPal Puts Sellers at a Dis   How eBay Breakup with PayPal Puts Sellers at a Dis
by: eXtinctBay This user has validated their user name.
       
Sun Apr 16 11:48:31 2017
As a seller, we have many responsibilities. List an item accurately and honestly, ship it fast, pack the merchandise well, etc....

A buyer has TWO basic things to accomplish.

(1) Pay for the item.

(2) Provide the correct mailing address.

There has to be some sort of penalty to the buyer when they cannot do something as simple as placing the address where they eat, sleep, and receive their mail from on an order.

I had the same situation arise last holiday season. A new (zero feedback) user in the Bronx failed to place her apartment address for shipping.

She actually called me on the phone asking why her postal carrier could not deliver her package. I explained that all I can do is mail to the exact address supplied on the order.

And she said that her postman was always able to find her to deliver the mail. Since it was near Christmas, her regular carrier was probably on vacation.

Luckily, she did not escalate this matter to an eBay / PayPal claim, as I would have had to issue an immediate full refund (and not be able to charge a restock fee to reimburse my shipping cost).

Disgusting that a seller has to bear the costs for doing something exactly as instructed.

Could organized groups of scammers have items shipped to friends, claim they never got their package, and file for a refund? Why not? As long as these e-commerce companies treat their sellers like ''noise'', and let buyer fraud run rampant, this is very possible.
How eBay Breakup with PayPal Puts Sellers at a Dis   How eBay Breakup with PayPal Puts Sellers at a Dis
This user has validated their user name. by: WOODJUNGLE! ON EBAY
       
Sun Apr 16 22:10:15 2017
In this situation,  Ebay DOES protect the seller.  Paypal does not however.
How eBay Breakup with PayPal Puts Sellers at a Dis   How eBay Breakup with PayPal Puts Sellers at a Dis
by: JLS This user has validated their user name.
       
Mon Apr 17 00:43:12 2017
I've got an even more sinister one for you:  I sold a $5,000 brand new diamond bracelet on eBay.  1st time ZERO FB brand new Buyer had it for a week - never said a word.  Then filed against me in eBay saying bracelet's clasp was broken & inoperable.  I tried to explain how to use it - no answer from buyer.  Without being instructed to send it back by EITHER eBay or me, Buyer sent it back:  Clasp was fully useable & working - however, obvious that buyer had worn it for a week, dinged it up, dented, scratched what was a new $5,000 bracelet.  eBay tol me to get a police report.  I did so, & upon the police report:  eBay ruled in my favor & said since buyer sent back the bracelet without being instructed to do so, if he wanted it back, he had to pay for it back. Case closed in my favor.  Buyer waits a month, then files a Chargeback against me in Paypal.  Even though I provided the eBay decision in MY favor, the police report, photos of the damage the buyer did to my formerly brand new diamond bracelet?  Paypal just sided with the buyer & the credit card company stating ''Not enough evidence to support your claim''  So now, I've paid $150 in Seller fees to eBay, $30 in original shipping fees to the buyer, now Paypal has tacked on another $120 in fees & Chargeback fees, plus they want me to reimburse them $1,500 of MY money that they gave away when they just ''Rolled over'' to the lying scamming buyer (who, by the way, instantly CLOSED his eBay account after he tried to scam me & before he filed the chargeback!), so I'm out $1,800 total & the buyer RUINED my $5,000 bracelet by banging it up, denting it etc.  Obviously, eBay case decisions & Police reports make no difference to Paypal.  
How eBay Breakup with PayPal Puts Sellers at a Dis   How eBay Breakup with PayPal Puts Sellers at a Dis
by: Moonwishes This user has validated their user name.
       Web Site
Mon Apr 17 00:51:04 2017
I have been under the impression for years that we are to ship ONLY to PP verified addresses, which are the ones that PP gives us as the shipping address. So how can this person that didn't give her correct address get away with not having used a proper address and PP reimbursed her? If the seller had sent it to an address with the apt number on it even though it wasn't the address that PP said to ship to, then if it still wasn't delivered for whatever reason, PP could then say it was the seller's fault for not sending it to the right address.

What we as sellers are supposed to do anymore is getting crazier and crazier. The old rules don't apply and the venues plus PP seem to be making up rules as they go along.

I've always gotten ticked when a buyer complains that I shipped something to their old address that they haven't lived in for 3-4 years. I've never once bought anything except a digital download through PP that didn't require me to confirm my address so how can some be so oblivious to their address that they okay and old out of date one.
How eBay Breakup with PayPal Puts Sellers at a Dis   How eBay Breakup with PayPal Puts Sellers at a Dis
by: imbloated This user has validated their user name.
       
Mon Apr 17 01:00:20 2017
An ebay buyer wanted to return an item because he ''just didn't like it.'' My terms said ''no returns.'' Ebay appeal sided with me and refunded me before the buyer even sent it back. I found out why- he told the buyer to file a paypal dispute. Buyer sent the item back to me, showed proof of this to paypal, and paypal automatically found in his favor. Paypals's reason? The item was returned to me. So, anyone can buy something and use it, even break it, and then just send it back, show proof of mailing to Paypal, and Paypal will snatch the seller's money automatically regardless of seller terms or condition of the returned item. No humans will even look at the case.
How eBay Breakup with PayPal Puts Sellers at a Dis   How eBay Breakup with PayPal Puts Sellers at a Dis
This user has validated their user name. by: LasVagueness
       
Mon Apr 17 01:12:31 2017
Have you tried getting reimbursed from eBay, Keith? I had a $400 handbag that showed delivered, however, the customer claimed "not received." eBay paid the customer out of their funds.  
How eBay Breakup with PayPal Puts Sellers at a Dis   How eBay Breakup with PayPal Puts Sellers at a Dis
This user has validated their user name. by: Marie
       
Mon Apr 17 02:37:29 2017
Keith

Sounds to me like you got a CSR on PP that simply was not correctly trained.  The PP policy is clear.  If you want seller protection on PP you must adhere to a few simple rules.

One of those rules is shipping to the address on the PP payment notice.  If you don't, then you can't qualify for the Seller protection offered by PP.

I strongly suggest you call them again and politely explain this to someone.  They should not have refunded this to the buyer.

If this buyer did follow through with their threat and opened both an Ebay and a PP dispute, call Ebay.  Report it.  That is suppose to be a big no no on Ebay.  I personally have never tested it as I've never had a buyer do that, but if that is going on here, spend some time on the phone and get it reported to Ebay.
How eBay Breakup with PayPal Puts Sellers at a Dis   How eBay Breakup with PayPal Puts Sellers at a Dis
by: Chicago48 This user has validated their user name.
       
Mon Apr 17 04:32:19 2017
I dunno....seems that the sellers could call the post office and have it returned?
How eBay Breakup with PayPal Puts Sellers at a Dis   How eBay Breakup with PayPal Puts Sellers at a Dis
by: Marc D This user has validated their user name.
       Web Site
Mon Apr 17 06:50:40 2017
We've been on eBay since 1999, a total of 18 years, and the service has steadily gone down hill. Recently, we shipped a $35 item plus shipping to a verified address in mainland China. The customer sent us two emails indicating he never received the item, even though the USPS shows it as being shipped but not delivered and likely still en route. He opened a case and of course Ebay sided with him and gave him a full refund. We have not received the parcel back and we are out the funds. In the past, the case would have remained in limbo a bit longer to see the disposition of the package. To add insult to injury, we also get dinged with a transaction defect even though we did nothing wrong and shipped to the address they had on file for this guy. And, of course, we are prevented from leaving negative or neutral feedback to warn anyone else, so the situation likely goes on and on. In the beginning, we used to shell out around $800 or more a month to eBay to cover their fees. Now, we are down to a little over $200, since sales on their site are in the toilet. Some how, our listings are either no longer visible in general searches or pushed so far down that no one wants to bother looking for them. Ebay has no concern for the seller. At the rate they are going, they will have lots of buyers and scammers, but no one interested in selling on their platform since they keep cutting benefits in their quest to be like Amazon. No amount of advertising will put them on an equal footing with Amazon.  
How eBay Breakup with PayPal Puts Sellers at a Dis   How eBay Breakup with PayPal Puts Sellers at a Dis
by: Windkissed This user has validated their user name.
       Web Site
Mon Apr 17 08:19:41 2017
Paypal has tried to access my bank accounts without my authorizaton.  I got real upset with them.  There was no reason for it.  I bought some supplies for making jewelry and I had plenty in my paypal account but they chose to try to access my bank accounts for the money.  I told them to NEVER do that again.
How eBay Breakup with PayPal Puts Sellers at a Dis   How eBay Breakup with PayPal Puts Sellers at a Dis
by: ssusannss This user has validated their user name.
       
Mon Apr 17 08:32:34 2017
I have gone up against PayPal three times now with the better business bureau in California when I was taken advantage of, and won every time, and within 45 days. Give it a try.  
How eBay Breakup with PayPal Puts Sellers at a Dis   How eBay Breakup with PayPal Puts Sellers at a Dis
by: Barbbie This user has validated their user name.
       
Mon Apr 17 08:50:06 2017
I think I would address the situation again with paypal re shipping to the confirmed address, assuming you did, this should have been held if not outright declined.  Also, paypal does not usually just close cases that fast...usually it takes awhile, even if you lose.  I think someone made a mistake.

@windkissed - you need to check your paypal payment settings and be sure your backup is not your checking acount or that you do not have any backup set up to prevent mistakes like that from happening if you think it is a problem. Whenever I get an echeck payment, I send buyers an email advising them that the shipping will wait until the check clears, many times, they do not know they paid by echeck.  Whether it is due to low balance or just clicking the wrong button, it happens, but the reverse is if you don't realize you just paid ebay/bills out of your balance and then you try to purchase supplies and get your card turned down.
How eBay Breakup with PayPal Puts Sellers at a Dis   How eBay Breakup with PayPal Puts Sellers at a Dis
by: spooky This user has validated their user name.
       
Mon Apr 17 09:45:50 2017
did the seller get the package back? if so, of course you need to refund the buyer. My personal complaint with eBay and paypal is that the payment links on eBay no longer work. it used to bring you to the exact payment page but now it just brings you to the account and you have to start hunting around for the payment info.
How eBay Breakup with PayPal Puts Sellers at a Dis   How eBay Breakup with PayPal Puts Sellers at a Dis
by: timeaftertime This user has validated their user name.
       
Mon Apr 17 09:51:30 2017
If this situation happened to me, my first action would have been to enlist my postmaster to determine WHY my package was ''UNDELIVERABLE.''  The ''insiders'' in USPS have access to better info than you can get from the website.

It's too bad you got eBay/PP involved first, without trying through USPS to determine where the package actually was. It's very possible the carrier hit a wrong button on his/her device.

I don't use PP shipping any more so I can't say, but the program I'm using now (Stamps.com) often will give me a pop up if the address has apartments, because that may make a difference in the zip code.  

I would have waited to involve eBay/PP, and especially NOT informed the buyer that her package was ''undeliverable'' until after I had checked with my postmaster.

USPS can be hard to work with but this is one of those places where they are best contacted before doing anything else.

I always check to make sure packages are RECEIVED after USPS says ''delivered.'' One customer freaked out and actually filed a PP complaint!! which froze my account -- because he had not realized his package was there on the porch where the carrier had left it. This was a Friday night and I could do nothing until Monday - PP restored everything after he got back in touch and admitted he had mistakenly overlooked the package -- but NOT until after I had told him to LOOK for the package and not just ''assume'' it was not delivered!! Unbelievable.  
How eBay Breakup with PayPal Puts Sellers at a Dis   How eBay Breakup with PayPal Puts Sellers at a Dis
by: cillianred This user has validated their user name.
       
Mon Apr 17 10:48:21 2017
When certain problems arise, I've found it can be very helpful to call the local post office where the package is being delivered from.

In this case, I would have explained to the buyer that if she receives a refund, then my only choice would be to call her post office and initiate a return to sender for the package. I certainly wouldn't leave it sitting there just waiting for her to pick it up after she received a refund.

Sometimes just letting a buyer know that you're in contact with their post office is enough to straighten out the situation. I would do it in a friendly, helpful way. Such as, ''I have the number for your post office. Tomorrow, I'll call them and see if we can get this situation cleared up so your package can be delivered''.

Once a buyer knows that you're actually in contact with their post office, problems often miraculously disappear.
How eBay Breakup with PayPal Puts Sellers at a Dis   How eBay Breakup with PayPal Puts Sellers at a Dis
by: Sunflower This user has validated their user name.
       
Mon Apr 17 11:19:27 2017
I do have a question on shipping addresses after reading all of the above comments. I normally use Stamps.com or once in a while (only as needed) I use ebay. I contacted ebay and asked if I used the shipping address in the eBay account or the PayPal account as one time I noticed they were different. The instructed me to use the eBay address. As I have been selling for over 20 yrs I have always used eBay but that day I wondered because it was a bit more expensive item than I normally sell. It worked out ok, but wondered which address do you sellers use? Do you take ebays' word or PayPal's? I know the choices between the two aren't great but I am curious to see how others ship?? Thanks for your time!
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