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Fri Sept 16 2011 016:54:46

Should I Give eBay Buyer a Chance to Do the Right Thing?

By: Ina Steiner

Sponsored Link

Dear Ina,
Last month, a customer on the other side of the country contacted me to tell me his item had not arrived after 10 days. He was very polite and sincere, and he made NO THREATS of any kind. Not even a hint.

I had shipped his item with USPS delivery confirmation. Unfortunately, the item had only been scanned locally, and the USPS web site gave no indication that the package had ever gotten any further than my home town.

There is no doubt that my customer was absolutely telling the truth. He had not received it package. That much is clear.

The package was missing and the USPS delivery confirmation provided no additional clues. Because it was obvious that my customer was being truthful, I promptly and cheerfully shipped him a replacement item (also with delivery confirmation).

But that's where my "cheerfulness" and his "truthfulness" ends. The day AFTER his replacement item was delivered, his original item is finally delivered!! Yes it was about a week late, but it did arrive, and now my customer has TWO items for the price of one.

It's been over two weeks, and there has been NOT A WORD from my customer letting me know that he received two items. (It's not as though he doesn't know how to contact me.) I guess he wasn't as honest as I originally imagined.

We're only talking $20 here....so should I let it go and block the customer who apparently wants to keep "free" merchandise? Or should I send him an invoice or ask if he'd like to pay for it? Or should I ask him to return the extra item at my expense?

Here's the thing....he hasn't left any feedback yet. If I annoy him by asking him to return the extra item, or by asking him to pay for the extra item, he could neg me or ding my stars anonymously.

It's a little embarrassing to admit, but I'm one of the Ebay Sellers who can be easily intimidated into giving undeserved refunds, partial-refunds, or even free merchandise. Even when the customer hasn't actually threatened anything, I have this fear of how the feedback and DSR system can be so easily abused.

What would you do? What would your readers do?
Sincerely,
"An Average Bowler"

Comments (20) | Permalink

Readers Comments

Should I Give eBay Buyer a Chance to Do the Right

by: anyone out there

Fri Sep 16 07:15:31 2011

Block him and move on.

He's not going to pay for the second item. If he was he would have contacted you about it.

Block the bum and move on.

Should I Give eBay Buyer a Chance to Do the Right

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by: Al G

Fri Sep 16 09:46:35 2011

I always say "let's give it a week, and, at that point we'll proceed from there".

It seems to work, most of the time the USPS reroutes the item from Timbuktu & it gets delivered OK.

Should I Give eBay Buyer a Chance to Do the Right

by: Jane Doe

Fri Sep 16 09:47:58 2011

I agree with anyone out there. Block and move on.

However, I would suggest that when you ship internationally that you just tell the customers politely that delays do happen and are out of your control and that you cannot resend or refund until the post office has had the REQUIRED time to delvier the package and or find the package.

You can NEVER expect internationals to arrive on time even when they are sent priority mail. There are so many things that can and DO delay packages and customs is one of the biggest problems.

Most international customers know and understand this. Those who refuse to understand are not worth dealing with.

The fact that the first one showed up is a perfect example.

I actually had a regular customer stop shopping with me because her package still had not arrived in 4 weeks and it was sent PRIORITY mail. She had not contacted me about it for 4 weeks and I immediately contacted the P.O and they started looking for it. I made sure she had all of the tracking info and could see that it was clearly shipped the day after she paid. It was insured and I even filed an insurance claim but the insurance company said I had to wait at least 45 days because they also know that the post office REQUIRES enough time to find the package once it has been reported as undelivered.

She wanted me to immediately resend another package but I explained that if I did that and the package showed up I would not be reimbursed for the second package because I did not follow the rules set forth for the post office or the insurance company. It was a $186 pkg (including shipping).

She then said that if I sent another and the first one arrived she would pay for it. So seeing she was a repeat customer I agreed. If she wasn't I would NOT have sent a second one until after the insurance kicked in. Well the second package arrived in the normal time and about 3-4 days later the first one arrived.

She did pay for it after about a week (no problem there) but she then stopped shopping with me. But to be honest, I do not care.
The fact that she would take it out on me for the delay and wanting me to just send another package at MY expense without even a promise of her to pay for the second pkg if the first arrived, tells me what she really thinks about me. She could care less if I LOST $186 but she was not going to, in fact even after receiving the insurance claim number and ALL of the postal info and knowing I had NEVER cheated her and would often give her FREE stuff, she also filed a paypal claim.

I had actually planned to block her once she filed the claim because that also told me what she thought of me.

Why should she get REWARDED at my expense for the post office delays.

People know that there are postal delays and sellers have no control over them and that packages usually (not always) do arrive, but MANY people take advantage of the situation to try and get REFUNDS and FREE products they know they are NOT entitled to.

I have found that this really only happens with EBAYERS because they know how to USE the system that ebay and paypal have created, which is a system of total ABUSE of the sellers in every way imaginable.

ebayers know they just have to INTIMIDATE the sellers with the threat or even THOUGHT of hurting their feedback and DSRS.

Should I Give eBay Buyer a Chance to Do the Right

by: Cash Back Ga
Web Site

Fri Sep 16 09:49:52 2011

I'm a former eBay Platinum Powerseller and I've been through similar situations before as I was a high volume seller. The deal is that your customer simply doesn't want to pay the return shipping. And why should s/he? If you want your item back, then you must make it easy for your client and send a return shipping pre-paid. This might cost you $10 of your $20 investment, but is it worth it? Chalk it up as a cost of doing business. You might even say, I know you've got both packages and I'm going to GIVE the extra one to you as a gift for the inconvenience. This goodwill will go a long way, particularly if it's a good customer.

I wouldn't block the client for this situation. There are plenty of bad buyers on eBay who look for opportunities to get free products and this person doesn't seem like one of them. The bad buyers out there are the ones who are seeking payback. They are getting revenge (trying to get something for free from YOU) only because they've been duped by a bad eBay experience in the past with another seller. All sellers become vulnerable to this juvenile game played on eBay every day.

The fact is that eBay needs to return to the policy of allowing buyers to give negative feedback or to somehow flag bad buyers to other sellers. Seller complaints need to be documented before I will return to eBay.

And finally, I want to advise all eBay sellers that they should not sell anything that does not give them at least a $15-20 NET PROFIT. Packaging products takes your time away from growing a business. Keep your product line simple and easy to pack. One of the biggest problems for large vendors is shipping the wrong product, and this usually affects two clients simultaneously. DVDs for example. The margins are low and the errors are high.
Be selective in what you list.

Should I Give eBay Buyer a Chance to Do the Right

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by: Anonymous Annie

Fri Sep 16 10:44:25 2011

Jane Doe writes: ''I have found that this really only happens with EBAYERS because they know how to USE the system that ebay and paypal have created, which is a system of total ABUSE of the sellers in every way imaginable.''

Now that you mention it... and now that I think about it... that's ABSOLUTELY TRUE!!

I'm currently doing quadruple the business on my website that I do on eBay. I sell the SAME items, I provide the SAME level of customer service, I process and ship with the SAME speed, and I use the SAME shipping service (also USPS).

Given all of these IDENTICAL factors, one might assume that I'd have the same percentage of problems at both places that I sell. But if someone assumed that, they would be TOTALLY WRONG!

The fact is this: I continually have MORE TROUBLE with eBay buyers than I do with customers on my web site! And I'll go one step further to state that I **ONLY** have trouble with eBay buyers, and **NEVER** have troubles with customers on my own site.

It's clear to me that eBay has created a very hostile and toxic environment that causes BOTH buyers and sellers to distrust each other. They make it super easy for buyers to abuse the system (causing seller distrust). As the sellers react to the high-risk situation they must deal with, they become more cautious, more strict, and less willing to bend or compromise.

As a result, the honest buyers are insulted and start to view cautious sellers as being untrustworthy, or greedy, or mean. And so they cycle continues.

Should I Give eBay Buyer a Chance to Do the Right

by: Jane Doe

Fri Sep 16 11:42:14 2011

@Cash Back Ga
It is hard to take your post seriously when your website link links to an EBAY get rich scheme.

@Anonymous Annie.

You are also correct and your following quote is SPOT ON!

"It's clear to me that eBay has created a very hostile and toxic environment that causes BOTH buyers and sellers to distrust each other. They make it super easy for buyers to abuse the system (causing seller distrust). As the sellers react to the high-risk situation they must deal with, they become more cautious, more strict, and less willing to bend or compromise.

As a result, the honest buyers are insulted and start to view cautious sellers as being untrustworthy, or greedy, or mean. And so they cycle continues."

The bottom line is, ebay and paypal can easily FIX these problems but they do not want to. They do not care about the sellers or how much money and headaches they cause them. They put ALL of the burdens (financial and otherwise)on the sellers, even when THEY are at fault. It is a WIN, WIN, WIN situation for ebay, paypal and the buyers and a CONSTANT LOSE, LOSE, LOSE situation for the sellers.

It should be no mystery where the problems lie, when the problems really only happen on ebay or on sites that operate like ebay and paypal.

Should I Give eBay Buyer a Chance to Do the Right

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by: DonC
Web Site

Fri Sep 16 12:32:14 2011

This happened to me one time out of thousands of shipments. My policy is that if it is a low dollar item < $30. I tell the buyer to keep it as a gift. For higher dollar items I ask for them to return it at my expense.

My advice; make a policy that makes sense to you from a unemotional business perspective and follow it.

All my best,

Don

Should I Give eBay Buyer a Chance to Do the Right

This user has validated their user name.

by: Ric

Fri Sep 16 12:55:52 2011

You could try contacting the buyer and explain that you shipped a second item to them because you agreed that the original item had appeared to be lost by USPS.

You could also request that when the buyer received the replacement item they simply mark the unopened package "Return To Sender" and the Postal Service will return it to you at no cost to the buyer.

An honest buyer will do just that.

A buyer who has been enabled by eBay & PayPal to commit electronic shoplifting by keeping an item they did not pay for will likely not respond and keep the second item.

Make one attempt to contact them to do the right thing, and if they do not respond and do not return the item or offer to pay for it, then simply use the report buyer feature and be done with it.

Should I Give eBay Buyer a Chance to Do the Right

by: John Doe
Web Site

Fri Sep 16 14:07:32 2011

If you're easily intimidated then I suggest not bothering to sell on eBay anymore because this type of manipulation from buyers will only continue get worse as the policies that eBay sets forth creates an optimum condition for the seller to be scammed out of money.

Should I Give eBay Buyer a Chance to Do the Right

by: Jason

Fri Sep 16 16:07:39 2011

It sounds like you ''self-ensure'' packages, meaning instead of buying postal insurance and making buyers wait 30+ days for claims to process, you just replace an item if the buyer reports they did not get it.

In this case, you decided to send a replacement to them to resolve the issue. It would be the ''right thing'' for the buyer to refuse delivery of the second unit, but there is nothing you can do if they don't. Just treat the situation as if they never got the first one and forget about it. You can send a kind email to the buyer saying you noticed the tracking shows the second one arrived and ask if they can cross out their address and write ''return to sender'' on it, and then drop it at any Post Office or mail box drop. You can say that if they opened it already- not knowing what it was- that if they would be so kind as to mail it back to you you will reimburse their shipping.

If you have Stamps.com or other online postage software, you can print a return label to a PDF file and send it to them via email as a prepaid return label they can use.

I would not bother blocking them. They have no reason at this point to be mad at you, so if they buy from you again then you are making money from them which is good. If you block them and they try to buy from you again, they may get annoyed and then leave you bad feedback for this prior transaction out of retaliation.

Should I Give eBay Buyer a Chance to Do the Right

by: Ripley

Fri Sep 16 16:14:58 2011

@Anonymous Annie.

''It's clear to me that eBay has created a very hostile and toxic environment that causes BOTH buyers and sellers to distrust each other. They make it super easy for buyers to abuse the system (causing seller distrust). ''

Very accurate point, I agree 100%.

I'd like to address why this has come about, for anyone who thinks this was a mistake, think again. Distrust between buyer and seller was carefully engineered and executed. Ebay wanted to knock small independent sellers down, take away their power, extract more money and break the spirit of being an independent business. Their 3+ year plan was to assimilate sellers into following their suggestions. Free or low shipping, no handling charge, reduced profit margin, more generous return policy, refunds for late deliveries and other losses resulting from their protection policies, etc. Those who don't go along with ebay requirements are cast aside as “non conforming”.

Creating distrust between buyer and sellers also reduces the temptation to transact off ebay which is one of the bigger reasons. Make the buyers think they need ebay to correct and punish those wayward sellers and reward them with free merchandise, refunds and the option to bash seller ratings with total anonymity.

Years ago, when there was less distrust, we bought and sold on and off ebay with little to no problems on either end. Buyer protection was created simply so buyers would become more addicted to the policies ebay and paypal offer. Distrusting buyers are attracted to ebay, they feel right at home knowing they might end up getting free stuff or money back.

Ebay has learned that sellers will hang on until they can't make enough money, then they leave of go bankrupt so ebay keeps pushing their agenda to attract more buyers with zero regard to how it affects their sellers, maintaining distrust is nothing more than a tool for ebay.

In theory, this move on ebays part was brilliant (ack) but it has backfired on them and will not continue to serve ebay well in the long run. I suspect they know it but are using it to shore up the quarterly reports while upper management pays themselves many extra millions of tax free income, each extra quarter is a lot of extra cash for them. After a number of years, the CEO steps down and they bring in another blow hard to repeat the process.

In regards to the OP's late package, we have seen a great increase of this problem this past year alone. In fact, we recently stopped sending small items using first class international and priority as it created too much of a head ach with all the inquires of “wheres my item” and “why doesn't the tracking show it's location” questions. Here again, the distrust increases the number of claims filed, the buyers know they have to file a claim within a certain time or risk losing their money so they file early to make sure they don't lose. They know there is an increased possibility they might get two for one or the item and their money. When the economy is bad all over, buyers with less money are ok with getting free stuff, after all, aren’t all ebay sellers wealthy? They can afford to take another hit, right???

When packages were late, we would kindly explain to the customer that the customs ID number is not an actual tracking number and the package will not usually get scanned along the way. We'd tell them shipping delays are more common this year due to cut backs in the postal service which is a problem world wide and customs holds packages without scanning them, parcels can sit in customs for weeks and you'd never know it.

There was a time when international buyers felt privileged to have access to the US market place but the thrill has worn off and now that they can, they are filing more claims and have become more demanding. Although we ship same or next day, we were seeing a big increase of low DSR's for shipping time and costs for packages sent overseas. International buyers have become enamored with ebays “free stuff” policy which is why we don't use anything but express. Even express mail has become slow. Considering the high cost to ship internationally and the fact that first class and priority don't have real tracking, offering merchandise for international dispatch has become more of a loosing proposition. In all reality, the cost to process these orders are higher so the sales price should also be higher. The additional money would go to make up for the increased time to fill out customs forms, answer ''wheres my item'' emails and increased loss factor associated with sending packages overseas. Ebay knows this but they just want to see sales go up, they don't care if sellers make or lose money.

Bottom line? There is no fairness built in for sellers, they are there for ebay to extract money from, then thrown jettison when used up.

It's been said many times... ebay sucks. This has never been more true than today.

Rip

Should I Give eBay Buyer a Chance to Do the Right

by: Jane Doe

Fri Sep 16 18:10:30 2011

Great post Ripley and very true.

You have to wonder though, once ebay has run off a majority of the small sellers and because they have taught buyers to lie, cheat and steal at unprecedented rates, how long do they think their diamond and Chinese sellers can hold on because they will now be forced to endure what we have.

Sure the sellers will be forced to raise their prices to try and cover the costs but with inflation only rising and actual costs of goods and services already causes increases in prices, no one will be able to afford to shop on ebay.

But then again, I think ebay already knows this and that is why they are trying to buy up everything they can get their hands on and investing very little into ebay.

Should I Give eBay Buyer a Chance to Do the Right

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by: permacrisis

Fri Sep 16 19:03:46 2011

The one that is actually threatening you is ebay- ALWAYS remember that. You walked right into the middle of a trap. It has a hair trigger.

If a gun mamufacturer sells you a gun, well, it's just a gun. But if the gun comes with 10 feet of fishing line, two thumbtacks, and a diagram showing how to rig it up as a boobytrap, well now that's something else altogether.

In real life, manufacturers like that get sued out of existence FAST. But in the online world, instead of the power to enforce law universally, our Federal Trade Commission has two cottonballs in its ears, a limp dick, and Donahoes number on speed dial.

Sorry you got fried.

Should I Give eBay Buyer a Chance to Do the Right

by: Jane Dough

Sat Sep 17 01:13:36 2011

IMHO, you should not have sent the replacement. You should have told the buyer to be patient as you had proof of mailing. Buyer is happy to get 2 for 1 and ain't gonna send it back. Personally, I'd rather eat bugs than sell something on ebay. Sad, as I should be celebrating my 14th anniversity with ebay next month, instead I am wondering how the uck something so great could go so bad.

Should I Give eBay Buyer a Chance to Do the Right

by: visa decline

Sun Sep 18 23:53:47 2011

eBay has most of their sellers running scared, afraid to do anything to piss off their buyers, so of course they'll all kiss ass to avoid getting negs that might not be deserved.

I no longer sell on eBay, though I made bank for a long time with them. It no longer was fun to do.

Should I Give eBay Buyer a Chance to Do the Right

by: PM

Tue Sep 20 08:48:42 2011

@Jane Doe
"...However, I would suggest that when you ship internationally that you just tell the customers politely that delays do happen and are out of your control and that you cannot resend or refund until the post office has had the REQUIRED time to delvier the package and or find the package...."

Sorry, this is not good advice. Unless you ship via Express Mail, Paypal will have refunded the buyer before the, usually 45 days, time requirement to even file a claim is met.

Fact is that an international buyer can file an INR claim in a couple weeks and paypal will have the refund in their hands within 30 days of the day you shipped the package. This has happened to me, so I know.

I shipped a package to Germany and Canada on the same day via UPS 1st class international. They actually got scanned, which was proof of shipment and unusual in and of itself. But that's not good enough for Ebay. 3 weeks after shipment, the buyer opened an INR case with Ebay in Germany and the funds were frozen. I had to navigate the German Ebay system and provided proof of shipment in a vain attempt to delay the refund, hoping the package would show up. German customs is notoriously slow. My Canadian buyer had inquired about his shipment and I managed to talk him into giving it another couple weeks. Thirty-one days after shipment and a day after the German's refund was issued, the Canadian buyer informed me that his item had arrived. I never heard from the German buyer again, even after repeated requests to cooperate with me in an attempt to file a claim with my insurance company. I'm positive that his item cleared German customs and was delivered a couple weeks after he got his refund. At that point, he had no incentive to cooperate with my insurance company as it would have required him to state in writing that he didn't receive an item that he almost certainly did receive. Even if he had not originally intended to defraud me, Paypals policy of issuing premature refunds created a situation where he suddenly found himself with the money AND the goods, expectedly or not.

Insurance companies are aware of the time involved in International shipments. That's why they have a 45 day waiting period before a claim can be filed. Paypal ignores transit times altogether and acts as a willing accomplice to this fraud.

The OP's case didn't involve an international shipment. Nonetheless, Jane Doe's advice to "politely inform" the buyer about "required" delivery time is hollow. There is no such thing as "required" delivery time, at least not as far as Paypal and Ebay are concerned. If a package can't be tracked day to day, all an international buyer need to is file an INR case and, Bingo, they'll get a refund. No questions asked.

Should I Give eBay Buyer a Chance to Do the Right

by: ruthie

Tue Sep 20 09:01:06 2011

''Last month, a customer on the other side of the country contacted me to tell me his item had not arrived after 10 days.''

OP's sale WAS NOT international.

''I would suggest that when you ship internationally that you just tell the customers politely that delays do happen and are out of your control and that you cannot resend or refund until the post office has had the REQUIRED time to delvier the package and or find the package.

You can NEVER expect internationals to arrive on time even when they are sent priority mail. There are so many things that can and DO delay packages and customs is one of the biggest problems.

Most international customers know and understand this. Those who refuse to understand are not worth dealing with.

The fact that the first one showed up is a perfect example.''

Should I Give eBay Buyer a Chance to Do the Right

by: Ann

Tue Sep 20 13:28:38 2011

Dear Average Bowler,
People are as dishonest, as you allow them to be. Check his feedback and see how knowledgeable, to determine if he knows ALL of eBay's rules. On eBay, request the buyer’s contact information and call him, before writing but be prepared to do what’s required. If you aren’t successful, send the following letter by Certified Mail.

“Dear Customer,
Unless you provide PROOF from the Postal Service that you've returned one of the two duplicate items you received, I will ask eBay to suspend your buying privileges, on the entire site. EBay works hard to stop illegal activity and at this point, you are a thief, for retaining a product you did not pay for.

I will also report this transaction to the Postal Service Fraud Division. You’ve committed Postal Mail Fraud by using the US Mail Service, to secure a product, without payment. You have no legal right to the second item and I won’t stop, until you pay just consequences for your actions, no matter how long it takes.

The original slow shipping was the fault of the Post Office, not mine. I respected you enough to replace the item but it's obvious you are not as honest as I am.

I demand you return the item within 24 hours.
Regards
XXXXX

Please file a dispute with PayPal. They have access to the buyer's account, to his payment method and they can force him to pay for the 2nd item. Document everything with PayPal, when you ask for their help. Explain the issue of Postal Fraud, which will get their attention. Tell them ''They will be complicit in committing fraud, unless the buyer is made to pay or return the item''. Yes, much of this is bluster but only the ''squeaky wheel'' gets oiled.

Please don’t worry about negative feedback. If you fight hard enough (and by that I mean) badger eBay daily and threaten them with exposure to the news media, you will eventually get that removed.

You may be willing to lose $20 but I would never allow that to happen and I hope you won’t either.

This is a consequence of eBay not allowing sellers to leave negative feedback.
Ann

Should I Give eBay Buyer a Chance to Do the Right

by: Cloud

Wed Sep 21 17:44:20 2011

Send him a polite email stating that your records indicate that both the first and the second item has arrived, that you hope he is happy with the product and would he like to keep the second item for the cost of $xx.xx or return it. Be sure to state that you will reimburse return shipping should he choose that option.

You're not threatening, or accusing. You are simply letting him know that you are aware that the other item was delivered. That then leaves the ball in his court. Most will respond with an apology and then state which option they've chosen. Some will not respond at all and a very few will respond in a hostile manner. In any case, once you've sent the email don't pursue it any further other than to give instructions on how to proceed should they ask.

If something like this were to happen again I wouldn't be so quick to refund or reship. You should give domestic shipments at least 20 days and then have the post office try to trace it. If nothing comes up then refund or replace. On international shipments I would wait at least 30 days. I try to wait to refund or ship until I'm reasonable sure that the package is indeed lost.

Should I Give eBay Buyer a Chance to Do the Right

by: cloud

Wed Sep 21 17:51:27 2011

"I have found that this really only happens with EBAYERS because they know how to USE the system that ebay and paypal have created, which is a system of total ABUSE of the sellers in every way imaginable."

OH AMAZON is getting just as bad. Just like us sellers are finding new venues so are the con artist. Frankly, Amazon is getting so bad, that they are starting to make selling on EBay look good.

God it hurts to say that.

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