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Fri Mar 25 2011 23:19:19

Seller Opposes eBay Fees on Shipping Costs

By: Ina Steiner
Sponsored Link
Hi Ina,
I'm a large seller on eBay and it's absolutely disgusting what they've done. The ONLY reason they can get away with this and all the other insanities they have instituted is due to the fact they are a monopoly and they darn well know it. Unfortunately, they are my only option and I have to deal with it.

The smokescreen of the "free shipping" was a simple ploy to raise the sales price so they would increase their revenue via final value fees. They finally decided to stop hiding and just decided to just take it out of the shipping anyway.

How they can justify skimming from a service related to a sale, is absolutely beyond me. This could potentially backfire due to the fact the hikes are that big. This will put MANY sellers with low margins out of business.

I'm sure they have it all calculated though. I've seen eBay faltering with their growth for a long time now. Their answer seems to be to keep sticking it to the sellers to increase revenue and make stockholders happy rather than actually grow. That will only go so far, and they've almost played that option out.
Best,
Keith Marantz



Comments (95) | Permalink
Readers Comments

Seller Opposes eBay Fees on Shipping Costs   Seller Opposes eBay Fees on Shipping Costs
by: eBay veteran This user has validated their user name.
       
Sat Mar 26 05:57:38 2011
There is much more to it than a simple price hike. Here is my open letter to eBay CEO J. Donahue and an appeal to fellow eBay sellers. Please read it carefully, it is important.
<
The Brave New Ebay

Mr. Donahue, it was with great pleasure that I learned about the $ 40 mln in compensation you and other top eBay executives received in 2010. Behind your shining success was I, the small eBay seller.

I joined eBay as a seller of collectibles over a decade ago, growing with the company and steadily building my own business and reputation until I achieved thousands of 100% positive feedbacks, Power Seller and Top-Rated Seller status.  

All along, I struggled to accommodate your innovations which included incessant fee increases (with typical eBay hypocrisy, always presented as new benefits for sellers), mandatory use of PayPal, inability to leave feedback over negative seller experience, lack of true customer support, arbitrary manipulation of search results, preference of fixed-price listings, convoluted «detailed seller rating» (DSR) system with ever-changing performance margins, biased buyer-favorable dispute resolution process and total disregard of seller needs – and the list is still long.

I struggled to make my ends meet and make a living. I followed your lead, adjusted my prices, opened a store, paid much of the S/H out of my own pocket, moved lots of my listings to fixed prices, refunded bad buyers and extortionists so as not to spoil my ratings and provided you with hundreds of dollars in monthly fees. But no matter what I did, I only saw my fee payments rising and my income dropping – from a 60-70% percent sell-through rate I went to a meager 10% with ever-shrinking profit margin.

I have no doubt that you will cite the shrinking economy. That has a role, of course, but your innovations had much more to do with it.  

Nevertheless, you had the nerve to come out with your recent new fees announcement, that ultimate expression of greed. You are eliminating the small benefits which honest Power Sellers like me had. And you want to impose a fee on shipping charges, in fact taking your cut twice as eBay-owned PayPal already takes its percentage off the gross deal amount, including S/H charges.

Your mouthpieces are telling us to offer free shipping as «that is what the buyers want» and build S/H into the item price, citing the supposedly «reduced» final value fees. That is a blatant lie. We can do the calculations and see that either way we will end up paying you more – and paying you for postal services which you do not provide. Moreover, you want to seize our PayPal payments, keep them for weeks and make a hefty interest – all that supposedly to ensure delivery of goods, which your own officials admit they cannot track in a great number of cases.  

But let me ignore you for a moment just like you are ignoring me and tell fellow eBay sellers of  what has happened to me. Virtually overnight, I was transformed from Top-Rated Power Seller to one whose performance was rated «below standard». Oh, my feedback still is 100 percent positive and my customers are happy – it was a small DSR problem, a zero point something percent over the «norm» in one of those zillion DSR measurements. A problem with a system which is non-objective, convoluted, arbitrary and prone to buyer mistakes and abuses.

Now eBay is threatening to demote my store (resulting in yet higher fees). And in a month or so, if you read the small script, eBay will start implementing such practices as freezing PayPal payments for up to 21 days or more, limiting selling activities and imposing sales bans.

That is what has happened to one honest seller with perfect feedback. You will say: oh, it’s just that one person. Truth is that it has happened to many, many top-rated and power sellers. A DSR issue. Or a problem with too many Buyer Protection claims – mind you, eBay does not take into account buyer-acknowledged mistakes or settled disputes. Many sellers have already left in disgust. Read the forums. Read the discussions.

The same can happen to you any moment.

The executives of eBay are telling sellers to «raise your game» (that is a quote), «aim to become a TRS» (another quote) and earn some fee discount. Another lie. They forget to mention that unless you are a high-volume seller with over 100 deals a month, your performance is measured once in a YEAR. Thus, despite all its false talk of creating a «positive buyer experience», through these and other methods eBay is penalizing good small and mid-level sellers without giving them a chance to improve, while letting a few stinking but big fish off the hook.

Naturally, I was curious. I asked myself, why this sudden wave of demotions and penalties for perfectly good experienced sellers? After analyzing statements by various sellers and eBay officials, the conclusion was obvious. The immediate goals are 1) to severely limit the number of people entitled to TRS benefits; 2) to create a large pool of sellers whose funds are available for arbitrary seizure via PayPal, allowing eBay to earn interest on these huge amounts of frozen money.

The long-term goals also are obvious, if you carefully read the statements rather carelessly made by eBay executives back in 2008. They were quick to offer denials and clarifications, and they will not admit that in public. But the trend is clear. Create a «retail-type» marketplace dominated by large-volume retail sellers, with prices artifically controlled by eBay. Eliminate the handmade, the unique, the used, the collectible. Eliminate small and mid-level sellers. For all practical purposes, eliminate the auctions. Eliminate seller benefits. Keep outward appearance of a «great auction place» by attracting some newbies with free auction listings (these poor souls, of course, also will be subject to PayPal funds seizure).

Congratulations, Mr. Donahue, for turning a thriving and vibrant marketplace that provided millions with a chance to earn their livelihood or supplement their income and millions more with a chance to find that cherished item into a boring warehouse of boring goods, a greedy corporate monster and a virtual prison camp for sellers. Thank you for ruining our business. The catch is, though, that your business model will not work in the long run. As competition builds up, your eBay is slated to go down the drain.

While you count your compensation and stock acquired in insider trading, do remember one thing. EBay belongs to us. Not to John Donahue or Meg Whitman or Jim «Griff» or your countless robot mouthpieces and million-dollars-in-perks executives. We, the small, little sellers, have turned eBay into what it is. We brought it up and we can bring it down. And back up.

If there is one feeling I have it is not anger but sadness and shame at what eBay has turned into. And I’m telling myself, we can just go away quietly or live in eBay slavery and let the Donahues destroy whatever is left of it. Or we, the good, honest, professional and experienced sellers, can all fight to save our eBay.

Here is what we can and should do:

-          Turn eBay selling and buying boycott into regular monthly and preferably bi-weekly  feature;
-          Seek other selling venues and inform buyers about them. Remember, buyer-wise eBay’s only strength is advertisement. Already there are better places to find fashion items, crafts, cars, collectibles etc. Let buyers be aware of that;
-          Sellers with enough energy and means should unite to file class-action suits against eBay seller-discriminatory practices resulting in financial loss, ruin of professional career and reputation;
-          Inform your representatives and federal government about eBay practices of mandatory PayPal payments and planned arbitrary seizure of PayPal funds which are in apparent violation of the Dodd-Frank Act, monopoly and other regulations; inform Better Business Bureau of alleged eBay malpractices etc.; inform eBay buyers about the apparent company maltreatment of sellers and consequently buyers, let shareholders be aware of the potentially destructive policies of Donahue team;  
-          Demand restoration of mutual feedback system and variable payment methods, abolition of DSR system and postage percentage fees, stoppage of eBay manipulations with item search results, abolition of artificial shipping fees restrictions, immediate cancellation of any plans for PayPal funds seizure, a flexible fee structure without preference for any type of listings, realistic Power Seller and Top-Rated Seller requirements with appropriate benefits, impartial dispute resolution and feedback removal process.

Together, we shall win. Sellers and buyers, claim back your eBay before it is too late!  
Seller Opposes eBay Fees on Shipping Costs   Seller Opposes eBay Fees on Shipping Costs
by: anyone out there
       
Sat Mar 26 07:29:05 2011
With over 8000 items in my store I have always charged exact shipping.

Competitors sell at 0.99 with 20.00 shipping.

I'M SO GLAD EBAY IS NOW GOING TO CHARGE FOR SHIPPING.

Call it what you may. If you overcharged for shipping you are one of the guilty ones.

Most of us that didn't overcharged are just going to roll with it and move on.

Thanks Ebay
Seller Opposes eBay Fees on Shipping Costs   Seller Opposes eBay Fees on Shipping Costs
by: Kevin
       
Sat Mar 26 09:05:07 2011
Wow, great letter Ebay veteran.....

I once made a living on ebay and have since migrated to amazon.  It's too bad because ebay used to be fun when it started out.  

As a seller, I feel amazon has worked to earn my trust.  I wonder if Ebay management realizes that sellers simply do not trust them?  Too many years of poor customer services, fee increases and asinine policies that all benefit their bottom line while making it harder to sell and shrinking our margins.  

I'm glad I left, but I have to admit I do miss when it was fun.  

Worried about leaving ebay?  Don't be.  They are driving sellers away and buyers will follow.  I was very worried when I left, but business is doing well on amazon.  

Let your feet do the talking
Seller Opposes eBay Fees on Shipping Costs   Seller Opposes eBay Fees on Shipping Costs
by: Rick1313
       
Sat Mar 26 09:29:15 2011
What poster eBay veteran said.

And don't forget to show any interested non-eBay-connected third-party eBay,inc.'s UA site literature (Liability section) that states that they claim that are just a selling venue and do not take part in the transaction.

Yeah. Right.
Seller Opposes eBay Fees on Shipping Costs   Seller Opposes eBay Fees on Shipping Costs
by: BocaBubba This user has validated their user name.
       
Sat Mar 26 09:46:08 2011
I have been on Ebay for about 15 years (Have 4 character sellername). I have endured Ebay changes, fee increases etc. over that period. I was one of the first to use PayPal and on and on.
Well it's time to start getting out of Dodge. They have now moved to kill the goose that laid the golden egg.
So where do I go ? I'll figure it out and then refocus my selling to a new place and make 10-15% more due to the reduction in fees.
To Ebay it's been fun !
Seller Opposes eBay Fees on Shipping Costs   Seller Opposes eBay Fees on Shipping Costs
by: STOP IMPOSING YOUR FAILED INNOVATION ON US JD
       
Sat Mar 26 09:49:40 2011
I can honestly say, since 2008 my income has been cut by 30% to 50%

My eBay fees were $2,000 to $3,000 a month roughly and now they are about $3,000 a year

I am Top Rated, have done it all as Donnyhoe has prescribed to better the buyer experience

Along the way, I have had unrational (0) customers, give me horrendous negative feedback for no valid reason, damaging comments worth of a lawsuit against buyer

I have been knocked out of Top Rated buy customers who gave me positive feedback but sneaky 1 & 2 star ratings

As usual eBay did not do a damn thing about any unjustice done to me, nor did they care that I am killing myself with stress trying to be perfect for the buyer

How are they growing ? What kind of successful business plan, takes one of eBays finest sellers who paid them $30,000 to $36,000 a year in fee's, and now pays them $3,000 a year in fee's ?

I have seen several 90,000+ feedback sellers leave since 2008

Donahoe has positively killed this site, yet he gets rewarded for it ? How the hell is this plan going to make eBay big again in the long term ?

No advertising, no traffic, no sales like before 2008, and back door fee hikes out the @ss

What the hell are you people smoking running eBay, and those that think it is successful ?

Seller Opposes eBay Fees on Shipping Costs   Seller Opposes eBay Fees on Shipping Costs
by: Money
       
Sat Mar 26 10:09:43 2011
Oh BOO HOO.

Your first mistake was thinking that you were running ''your business'' by using ebay.  Sorry, but it's always been ebay's business - ebay's sellers, ebay's buyers.  

You're just a customer. You don't get to dictate what they do or how they do it..  If you don't like it, don't use them.  But for god's sake, don't tell me that ebay is hurting ''your business''.  If you think that way, you never had a real business.  Without ebay, you had nothing at all.  Ebay sold you on the illusion of ''running your own business'' - and you believed the hype.  

Ebay brought you millions of buyers, and you sold your wares using their SEO, their software, and their servers.  What exactly did you do?  YOu took a pic, wrote a crappy description, sold the item, and put it in a box.  Many of you actually believe that this is all it takes to run an ''online business''.  Time for a reality check.

So get off your duffs and stop complaining.  Take the time and effort to create your own online business.  Design and run your own website, find your own buyers, and develop your own brand.  Ultimately, this is what it takes to become a successful online business.  

If you choose to remain lazy and go with some ''free shop'' like ecrater or bonanza, fine, but realize they will be in contol - just like ebay.

Too complicated for you?  Don't have the skills?  Don't have the money?  Well, then you better stop reading these pointless blogs and forums and find a real day job.
Seller Opposes eBay Fees on Shipping Costs   Seller Opposes eBay Fees on Shipping Costs
by: eBay veteran This user has validated their user name.
       
Sat Mar 26 11:17:07 2011
@money

The fundamental mistake in your eBay-influenced rhetoric is viewing eBay as 'their business'. It's a two-way street at best, and while I agree that eBay built many sellers, sellers are what eBay is built on.
If you view eBay selling as 'taking a pic, writing a crappy description, selling the item and putting it in a box', you are very, very wrong. That's what makes a bad seller.
Being a good seller means searching for merchandise in many countries of the world. It means reading books, and spending days and weeks in research, and providing the best expert understanding of your merchandise. It means tireless study of pricing, competition, customer needs and buying patterns. It means knowing how to advertise your item without concealing its faults. It means years of building your buyers' trust. That's what I do for a living and that's my business, and I did it before anyone knew the word 'eBay'.
All eBay did for me was provide me with software and SEO etc., and I provided it with goods and expertise. Sorry eBay, the thing is mutual.
You say - build your own site or look for alternatives. We can do it and we will, and we shall be hawkish in explaining to our customers that there are such alternatives.
At the same time, should we abandon eBay to John Donuts and Jim Greeds? My answer is no. Myself and millions like me spent too much of our time, effort and knowledge to turn eBay into what it is.
You say we 'cannot dictate'. That's another fundamental mistake. If everybody was thinking like you, we'd all still be working in sweatshops. Unions have dictated business rules to factory owners. Customers have dictated prices and rules of customer relations to businesses, or else these businesses were forced to fold and fall. Giants mightier than eBay long have collapsed or adapted.  
The evidence is right there. EBay stock has gained some, and revenues are up some, which is the best Donahoe achievement - why? Because of PayPal. The core auction business is at standstill or even shrinking. Net income in 2010 was down 25% from 2009 and per share earnings are set to further decrease in 2011. And I wonder what would the dear eBay shareholders say when we all hit it in its soft underbelly, the core business?  
Seller Opposes eBay Fees on Shipping Costs   Seller Opposes eBay Fees on Shipping Costs
by: JD wants more
       
Sat Mar 26 11:22:24 2011
@ anyone out there

''With over 8000 items in my store I have always charged exact shipping.

Competitors sell at 0.99 with 20.00 shipping.''

Your competitors and Ebay still beat your fair shipping. Your competitors have a well padded shipping charge so ebay's % doesn't hurt them one bit!

Ebay says it wants to  stop the fraudulent shipping charges, so what do they do? They partner up with the shipping cheats and take a cut of the action!
Ha HA HA

Seller Opposes eBay Fees on Shipping Costs   Seller Opposes eBay Fees on Shipping Costs
by: ang
       
Sat Mar 26 12:09:18 2011
A word to @ Money:

'taking a pic, writing a crappy description, selling the item and putting it in a box'
If you are somehow under the impression that that is what we do, then you have absolutely no qualifications to leave anything on this blog. Are you seriously thinking that is what we TRS's do? HAHAHAHA. What an idiot. I'm sorry but what an idiot.

You got it, Mr Rocket Scientist. I sit around and take my crummy photos, post a quick description and then eat bon bons and do my nails all day. You figured me out. Wow you're a real genius.

You are the worst most dangerous kind of poster. The guy who is really dumb but thinks he's really smart. Your letter made you sound very ignorant and you should be embarrassed revealing how you think a business works. Before you post, maybe know what you're talking about. To save any dignity you might have left after this exchange. Just sayin'
Seller Opposes eBay Fees on Shipping Costs   Seller Opposes eBay Fees on Shipping Costs
by: 235698
       
Sat Mar 26 12:29:55 2011
"Ebay says it wants to  stop the fraudulent shipping charges, so what do they do? They partner up with the shipping cheats and take a cut of the action!
Ha HA HA"

And there you have it!
That really says it all.

Why didn't they hire real people to take down the listings with over-inflated shipping? Why didn't they respond to reported listings?

This company is nothing other than pure fraud, and the people who stay and support it are too.
Seller Opposes eBay Fees on Shipping Costs   Seller Opposes eBay Fees on Shipping Costs
by: pete
       
Sat Mar 26 12:46:56 2011
@Money

LOL you really have been brainwashed....the simplistic view you put forward is very much one of a buyer on eBay & very childish
Seller Opposes eBay Fees on Shipping Costs   Seller Opposes eBay Fees on Shipping Costs
by: Patricia This user has validated their user name.
       
Sat Mar 26 13:57:31 2011
@Ebay Veteran...many many of us know exactly what you went through and we feel your pain.  As for taking Ebay back...I'm sorry but that door closed in 2008 and stubbornly remains closed. Ebay is fighting to change itself because Donahoe has destroyed his US marketplace with his silly childish policies and his boot on sellers' necks.  It can never go back to what it was...so he tries other avenues in an attempt to plug the hole made by disappearing good sellers.  Other sites are coming up...Amazon eats their lunch and their favorite diamond, buy.com now lures Ebay's sellers away - I even have a buy.com seller's account!  Next Paypal will fall.  Visa already dipped their toe into the pool with P2P payments - how far are they away from internet payments just like Paypal?  Who wouldn't run to them after the horrors of Paypal?  Donahoe is not stupid - he knows this and he's desperately trying to keep of the facade of success.

My friend...start to build your business elsewhere.  if by some miracle Ebay does revert back then take advantage of it...but you shouldn't be dependent on it.  Good luck to you.
Seller Opposes eBay Fees on Shipping Costs   Seller Opposes eBay Fees on Shipping Costs
by: eBay rips buyers off
       Web Site
Sat Mar 26 14:18:52 2011
People like little animal characters. These characters tell people not to shop on eBay.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N-X5nQpQ2-c
Seller Opposes eBay Fees on Shipping Costs   Seller Opposes eBay Fees on Shipping Costs
by: Patricia This user has validated their user name.
       
Sat Mar 26 14:47:20 2011
Hey - Ebay Rips off Buyers....that road goes both ways.  There are plenty of good sellers who are getting hit by unscrupulous buyers.  More now then ever before since sellers are pretty much vulnerable to whatever buyers want to do to them!!!  Yeah sellers can rip you off but you can do so much more damage to them then they can do to you!!!
Seller Opposes eBay Fees on Shipping Costs   Seller Opposes eBay Fees on Shipping Costs
by: STOP IMPOSING YOUR FAILED INNOVATION ON US JD
       
Sat Mar 26 15:13:30 2011
Here is a thought, pay Donahoe $0 for the next year, tell him he can have his $12,000,000 only IF he registers and sells on eBay and earns AT LEAST $25,000 net profit and becomes a Top Rated Seller for 1 whole year

He could not do it, you know it, I know it Donahoe knows it

Let him try to be successful against the Chinese and competitors, and Best Match
Seller Opposes eBay Fees on Shipping Costs   Seller Opposes eBay Fees on Shipping Costs
by: Francine Hughes
       
Sat Mar 26 15:38:08 2011
What's really pathetic is not the ebay greed...everyone wants to make more money...it's the ebay users who complain, and complain yet do nothing about it (yes...boycotts are 'nothing'). At this point ebay & its users are in an abusive relationship. Big bad ebay lies, manipulates, beats, & abuses users. Users take it. Maybe they leave for a week...then they come right back - ''He says he loves me. He won't hit me again.'' You moron...

Has anyone seen The Burning Bed? THAT'S how you take care of an abuser.
Seller Opposes eBay Fees on Shipping Costs   Seller Opposes eBay Fees on Shipping Costs
This user has validated their user name. by: Tula
       
Sat Mar 26 15:40:25 2011
@Money:
A bit harsh, but I agree with the sentiment. A lot of sellers have grown complacent, letting eBay do everything for them. That might have worked well in the early days, but now people need to take control and do for themselves, instead of letting eBay control their business model.

Rather clever of eBay, now that I think about it. Get people to wrap their businesses up into eBay's way of doing things, then slowly change the rules on them to take more and more of the profit pie. The venue should be matched up to your business plan, not the other way around.
Seller Opposes eBay Fees on Shipping Costs   Seller Opposes eBay Fees on Shipping Costs
by: AgendaSwallowsAll
       
Sat Mar 26 15:52:35 2011
To the OP:

You can't teach one led by a self-serving agenda be it an individual or an entity a single thing, in fact the more one or all try, the more that individual or entity will
do to prove themselves right and you wrong for they aren't utilizing any point of intellect and/or common sense once consumed by a self-
serving agenda, all they
want or need is to be right at any cost.

Donahoe voices ''Industry Standard'' in this particular instance and I'm sure it has
been his justification for other moves. You are voicing Dinosaur Standards sir as the actual new Industry Standard for online venues is no list fees on any, no final value fees on most and those that do collect fees on the total in no way remotely approach the costs that would be incurred given the final value fee % collected by eBay.

Furthermore, it's a double-dip. As has been stated by the OP I believe as well
as by others, eBay's PayPal is already collecting on the total.

Donahoe took over at eBay and envisioned an Amazon business model as the cure. Amazon is a Dinosaur as well Donahoe, it will change or go away soon enough but at least the site will be able to do so with an ounce of dignity as the site was straightforward and upfront in its dealings whereas the demise of eBay will result in the ruination of live's no less staggering that that incurred through the collapse of Enron, the Subprime Mortgage debacle, etc. and you as well as your henchmen will end up serving prison time just as a number who were involved in agenda based schemes no different than yours.


Seller Opposes eBay Fees on Shipping Costs   Seller Opposes eBay Fees on Shipping Costs
by: 330120
       
Sat Mar 26 17:39:32 2011
The entire scenario is fraud!
They used false statements/info as  justification where there is none.

First off, they didn't present any independent data to suggest that buyers wanted free shipping, did they?

Second, what industry standards? They've said over and again they're not a retailer.

As pointed out already, they and they alone were responsible to remove over inflated shipping costs listings, yet even when reported they failed to do so.

Lastly, what they are forcing people to do is deceptive. Period.

FTC GUIDE CONCERNING USE OF THE WORD "FREE"  
http://tinyurl.com/yjwdtft
http://preview.tinyurl.com/yjwdtftR>
File
complaints to the FTC here:
www.ftccomplaintassistant.gov/

I've been reading some of the other complaints on which they have followed through and it looks like once they get about 1000 or more complaints they act. So please share this at places like ebay forums where the most victims are to be found


This is an excellent depiction of the mentality of Donahoe and the latest eBay corporate mentality.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H7Y5JIcjsPM
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