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Thu Aug 10 2017 08:57:07

PayPal Forces Buyers Remorse Return on eBay Seller

By: Reader

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Dear Ina,
I wrote you a few months ago about an eBay buyer who had obvious buyer's remorse and did not read the details or look at images in the ad. She returned the items. She did not go through eBay for a refund but did a charge back on her credit card. 

Well, yesterday I heard back from PayPal that they sided with her bank and took the funds from my account. $60.00.
 
Now I'm waiting to hear about a $260.00 return on buyer's remorse. Gerrrrr!
J.

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Readers Comments

PayPal Forces Buyers Remorse Return on eBay Seller   PayPal Forces Buyers Remorse Return on eBay Seller

by: pace306 This user has validated their user name.

Thu Aug 10 10:16:08 2017

.... the question is - what was the customers complaint(s).

I'm assuming he/she pulled a fake SNAD on you.

I had detailed questions about similar issues - but I "won" since PP declined to agree with the buyer.

I asked them LOTS of questions and they told me:

1)  "outright" that they are NOT in the warranty business - ie defective items that are not DOA are NOT part of this 180 day returns issue

2) they are independent of eBay - ie they do their own due diligence

3) you CAN open a case in both places - 1 after another and they can see/have access to eBay notes (so much for the separate company BS) and take those into consideration

4) they still cover unauthorized purchases assuming you shipped to the right place

We are going to assume for the moment that PP is being honest - whether they are or NOT is a different issue.

The issue then becomes - what the buyer told his CC. If he told them SNAD in anyway shape or form - that would initiate a chargeback  (ie customer didnt get what they were promised).

What excuse/reason did PP give you for siding against you ? If you didnt call them - then do so - but im guessing you did - and since they dont do "buyers remorse" (do your listings on eBay "allow" for such things?)  what was the reason they gave you ?

PayPal Forces Buyers Remorse Return on eBay Seller   PayPal Forces Buyers Remorse Return on eBay Seller

by: hopeforthebest This user has validated their user name.

Thu Aug 10 10:42:41 2017

The OP said the chargeback was through the customer's credit card, via Paypal.

Everything's different when that happens.

PayPal Forces Buyers Remorse Return on eBay Seller   PayPal Forces Buyers Remorse Return on eBay Seller

by: pace306 This user has validated their user name.

Thu Aug 10 11:11:08 2017

Yes - but there has to be a reason ... "just because" isnt a reason ....

What the buyer told the CC and what they told paypal could be and probably are 2 entirely different things.

PayPal Forces Buyers Remorse Return on eBay Seller   PayPal Forces Buyers Remorse Return on eBay Seller

by: FeelingFroggy This user has validated their user name.

Thu Aug 10 13:13:20 2017

More to the story than is being told, BET ON IT

PayPal Forces Buyers Remorse Return on eBay Seller   PayPal Forces Buyers Remorse Return on eBay Seller

This user has validated their user name. by: iheartjacksparrow

Thu Aug 10 14:46:10 2017

@J. (OP) - Did you get everything back in a condition that can be resold? If so, you should look at money you lost on shipping as the cost of doing business on eBay (and deduct that on your tax returns).

You've got to be happy that she didn't go through eBay or you would be responsible for paying for return shipping. The snowflakes generally don't want to be out any money for their mistakes.

PayPal Forces Buyers Remorse Return on eBay Seller   PayPal Forces Buyers Remorse Return on eBay Seller

This user has validated their user name. by: blueribbon1844

Fri Aug 11 10:14:38 2017

If a buyer uses a credit card the can always cancel the charge, and keep the item. Its a process on their part, but I've been scammed like this. I won every case, ebay and paypals, until it reaches the buyers credit card. Paypal also charges your acct a $20 "Dispute fee".  

PayPal Forces Buyers Remorse Return on eBay Seller   PayPal Forces Buyers Remorse Return on eBay Seller

This user has validated their user name. by: eXtinctBay

Fri Aug 11 12:42:57 2017

Yes, this is a scam, and I am surprised more buyers do not do this.

A buyer can just claim SNAD to their credit card company, and they will keep your merchandise and your money.

And to add insult to injury,  PayPal will levy a $20 chargeback fee to your account. And there is no way out. No appeals, no fighting your case, no getting your item back, no seller protection.

If this ever happened to me (on anything expensive), it will be well-documented and presented to my attorney. If you are not happy with the item, fine. Just return for a refund. But allowing a buyer to keep an item AND obtain a refund has to be illegal on so many levels!!

PayPal Forces Buyers Remorse Return on eBay Seller   PayPal Forces Buyers Remorse Return on eBay Seller

This user has validated their user name. by: iheartjacksparrow

Fri Aug 11 19:14:46 2017

@eXtinctBay - If any buyer ever claimed SNAD, kept the merchandise, and got a full refund, you can bet I'd be filing a theft report with the police department, and a mail fraud claim with the postmaster. I would also be going against the credit card issuer for conspiracy to commit fraud, and filing a complaint with the attorney general and department of corporations for the state the issuer was incorporated in.

PayPal Forces Buyers Remorse Return on eBay Seller   PayPal Forces Buyers Remorse Return on eBay Seller

This user has validated their user name. by: Bill

Fri Aug 11 23:49:16 2017

Iheart:

Amen!

PayPal Forces Buyers Remorse Return on eBay Seller   PayPal Forces Buyers Remorse Return on eBay Seller

This user has validated their user name. by: Marie

Sat Aug 12 02:42:28 2017

@blueribbon

No they can't.  A CCC doesn't allow members to "cancel" a charge on their CC.  They can put a charge into dispute, but that is not cancelling a charge.  If a CCC started allowing their members to "cancel" transactions without due process to the merchant, merchants would stop accepting the CC that was doing this as a policy.

We as customers are NOT the only ones CCCs have to make happy.  Without us, they would not have anyone using their CCs and generating fees for them.  BUT business establishments do NOT have to accept any CC a customer might want to use.  So the CCCs walk a line when it comes to processing these chargebacks.  If they allow too many of them with any given merchant to go through without regard to the facts, that merchant can stop accepting that CC.

PayPal Forces Buyers Remorse Return on eBay Seller   PayPal Forces Buyers Remorse Return on eBay Seller

This user has validated their user name. by: Marie

Sat Aug 12 02:46:41 2017

The facts are very limited from the OP so slamming Ebay and/or PP is really worthless as none of us here knows what the heck is going on.  Sure you can assume Ebay and/or PP has done something wrong, but that doesn't make it a fact in this situation.  It is impossible to help without more details.

If the OP wants to post more details, we may be able to help them.  It is NOT a forgone conclusion that the buyer will win any claim and/or chargeback filed with PP.  That simply is NOT true.  But for this specific case the OP has issues with, we just don't know the details to help or offer an opinion on what it going on.

PayPal Forces Buyers Remorse Return on eBay Seller   PayPal Forces Buyers Remorse Return on eBay Seller

This user has validated their user name. by: blueribbon1844

Sat Aug 12 10:03:27 2017

@Marie
Hi I don't totally agree with your assessment of the situation.

"No they can't. A CCC doesn't allow members to "cancel" a charge on their CC. They can put a charge into dispute"

Cancel/Dispute... same in my eyes. When I have disputed a charge on my Visa. the funds are put back in my acct. immediately. Then the CCC disputes the charge with the merchant.

If you buy something and use paypal, your options are to use the PP balance or charge your CC. So there is absolutely no way I can stop any buyer from using a CC to purchase from me. I only take paypal. But through PP buyers use the CC.

The facts from the OP aren't detailed enough. But I know 100% if you buy on ebay, use your CC to pay thru paypal. You will win that dispute/cancelation 100% of the time.

PayPal Forces Buyers Remorse Return on eBay Seller   PayPal Forces Buyers Remorse Return on eBay Seller

This user has validated their user name. by: Marie

Sat Aug 12 12:59:45 2017

@blueribbon

It may be the same in "your eyes", but that doesn't change the fact that "cancel" and "dispute" are two different things.

"When I have disputed a charge on my Visa. the funds are put back in my acct. immediately."  Then your Visa is a bit different than most.  Typically when an item is put into dispute, the charge is kind of like set aside for now or frozen, so to speak.  You don't have to pay for it yet, not until the dispute is decided.  But the do NOT reverse the charges.  It is still on your account pending the outcome of the dispute.  BTW, if you lose the dispute, if any interest charges would be due because of the length of time to resolve the issue, they would get charged to your account.

"The facts from the OP aren't detailed enough. But I know 100% if you buy on ebay, use your CC to pay thru paypal. You will win that dispute/cancelation 100% of the time."  I'm sorry to hear that your luck has not been so good in this area.  But I assure you that this is not true for everyone.  I for one have not lost a chargeback.  Either because I had the proof to prove what the buyer was saying was not true or because PP covered me under seller protection.  Either way my money was not lost to me.

I know sellers lose these types of cases, it is all too common.  

PayPal Forces Buyers Remorse Return on eBay Seller   PayPal Forces Buyers Remorse Return on eBay Seller

by: Santini This user has validated their user name.

Sat Aug 12 16:47:57 2017

It's the CCC that assesses a "chargeback fee" of $20 any time a chargeback is filed. Paypal pays it to the CCC and, of course, they take it out of the sellers account. That fee is non-refundable under any circumstances. If you dispute the chargeback to paypal, it will be months before they decide in your favor or not. I won such a dispute and was returned the original payment in my account. I do not know if the CCC reimbursed PP or if it was just decided internally by PP and they ate the reimbursement.

PayPal Forces Buyers Remorse Return on eBay Seller   PayPal Forces Buyers Remorse Return on eBay Seller

This user has validated their user name. by: LasVagueness

Mon Aug 14 00:08:08 2017

J - Buyer's remorse is an inconvenient seller's scourge that has to be factored into the cost of doing business. So long as they send the item back in the same condition it was mailed...

PayPal Forces Buyers Remorse Return on eBay Seller   PayPal Forces Buyers Remorse Return on eBay Seller

by: Barbbie This user has validated their user name.

Mon Aug 14 00:34:46 2017

I had a buyers remorse (international) on ebay, who wrote to me and said how she really did not want it because she just found out it was 63.00 (purchased priority shipping) so that was too much money.  But, she does not want to return it, she just wants a full refund. Of course, explained that's not the way buyers remorse works.
So she goes to paypal and files a SNAD (supposedly she received a different item which I do not sell) to get the full refund.
Of course I send the ebay emails as proof and tell them I will refund upon return or I will send another.
She returns a completely different item, gross and used no less, so not even something I can sell trash.
Paypal does not accept pictures as proof, I had to request an appeal, so they send me an affidavit to have a notary sign (more money, of course) to prove I am not lying and they will "consider" my claim.  I did not bother with this thinking it is just a scam on me, sure enough once I got back the decline of my appeal, it says that the form letter (from paypal) was not on the notaries letterhead (Notaries around here do not generally have letterhead especially when all they are being asked to do is witness a signature on a form) And , you also need the notaries business card (also, not asked for on the instructions for the form). As I expected, this was only a ploy to further irritate and cause more expense to the paying customer of paypal (me).

PayPal Forces Buyers Remorse Return on eBay Seller   PayPal Forces Buyers Remorse Return on eBay Seller

by: Tiffee Jasso This user has validated their user name.

Mon Aug 14 02:44:52 2017

I have had 4 chargebacks for fraud by various buyers over the years with Paypal, and won every one of them by uploading PDF files or Jpeg copies (whichever is required at the time) of the receipts for the Ebay order, the shipping label, the delivery confirmation for the address and name of the buyer on Ebay. On the $400 Donald Duck statue, I used Signature delivery, and the Las Vegas gentleman who hollered fraud, signature was on receipt. It is time consuming and a headache for a seller to have to fight buyer fraud when dealing with a credit company, but it can be done. I just wish the credit card company, Paypal and Ebay would refuse to do business with that type of buyer as they have proven themselves to be criminals.  

PayPal Forces Buyers Remorse Return on eBay Seller   PayPal Forces Buyers Remorse Return on eBay Seller

by: cayenna This user has validated their user name.

Mon Aug 14 09:01:10 2017

I'm sharing these experiences because they are similar...About 6 months ago I had a seller sell something to me that was not even remotely close to what it was supposed to be. Even though they do not accept returns I contacted them for permission to return, they agreed. Since this was a return to Australia it was going to cost me a lot of money for shipping it back but according to paypal I'm supposed to get that back with the sellers refund. Once I printed out the shipping label and 'shipped the item', plus sent the seller the tracking including photos that it was shipped; the seller said they changed their mind and decided not to refund! I immediately called eBay and I was told call them back in such and such amt of days and they would handle it if in my favor. So the seller got the item back and I received no $. I filed a claim and almost the same day eBay responded in the sellers favor! Really?!? I said this is stealing, they get the item back and I'm out everything after the seller agreed to return and refund. Needless to say after 2 months of having to waste a lot of my time I finally got a refund and it was only due to a lot of prior documentation with the seller, and eBay said it was a courtesy refund! Since then this also happened to me with a purchase from China, it's been 3.5 months and still no refund even though I provided proof of the return! And that shipping was spendy as well. I cannot trust to buy anything on eBay. If you can't even trust getting your refund when the sellers gets the item back then you have no protection. Paypal just referred me back to eBay they did nothing even though I used my paypal acct to pay the seller. That's the last time I am going to be out my money. I am finding more and more that what you purchase is nothing at all like what you thought your were buying therefore you have to return it and then this happens. You can't trust the seller nor eBay.

PayPal Forces Buyers Remorse Return on eBay Seller   PayPal Forces Buyers Remorse Return on eBay Seller

by: Barbbie This user has validated their user name.

Mon Aug 14 09:23:10 2017

Cayenna -
First - If you opened a dispute with paypal, why are you calling ebay for a refund or any help? At that point they are out of it. You need to start and follow through with the same , either paypal or ebay only.  If the seller reports you for opening multiple cases with both paypal and ebay you will lose.
Second - are you looking at the feedback on these sellers you are buying from - If they have a lot of negatives or are the huge ebay favored sellers you need to stay away from those. When you see multiple negatives - don't buy!

PayPal Forces Buyers Remorse Return on eBay Seller   PayPal Forces Buyers Remorse Return on eBay Seller

by: Barbbie This user has validated their user name.

Mon Aug 14 09:30:42 2017

Cayenna - Also, certainly they sold what you were looking for in the US... Buy only from US Sellers and you will have better luck.  Ebay and paypal are unlikely to fight with any Chinese seller they are trying to get them to open accounts.
Did you have proof by signature of who signed for these items in the other country? Do you even have the final tracking number from the company who delivered the item?

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