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Thu Sept 12 2013 07:51:09

Fallout from Etsy Feedback Changes Continues

 By: Reader
Sponsored Link
Dear Ina,
Over Labor Day weekend, several hundred Etsy sellers spent most of their time on an Etsy forum asking Etsy admin to come into the thread and answer questions about several new "rules" they had put into play. They closely monitor forums - closely enough to immediately erase any post that hits too close to home. They refused to come in and talk to their customers (that being us, the sellers).

Etsy preaches customer service, customer relations, but refuses to talk to its own seller except for to mute them, permamute them, or close their shop in the middle of the night which isn't really talking as you never hear from them again.

After four days of sellers discussing WHY the new star rating would hurt sellers, WHY the inability for sellers to now leave feedback for their buyers, and HOW this would hurt customer relations for the sellers, one admin popped in with two paragraphs of doublespeak. It said NOTHING. We are reviewing, however this is going to stand, but we will look into blah blah blah. She ended by saying "we will be closing this thread shortly". And sure enough - by the end of that page (page number 1305) Rob came in and said "this page is now closed".

Etsy management behaves like spoiled brats. They got very lucky with Etsy. It cannot be because of intelligence. They've proven that. AND they "get even". This week NO one in Etsy has had sales. They of course swear they have nothing to do with this. We as sellers know better. The slow (or no) sales always hit after a major uproar. They refuse to listen to the people who made Etsy grow, who kept Etsy growing, and who DO the customer service. They are like spoiled children, refusing to talk, refusing to "come out of their rooms" when things go badly.

Not a word, but all of us who crossed the invisible line and got a comment erased, received emails with our offensive remark quoted and then a link to one of their one million rules where is specifically states you cannot do this or that. Their rule book has pages, tables, and sections.

So the exodus to Zibbet has begun. In fact, Zibbet is being over-run. New shops are popping up every 15 minutes. We have been met by two wonderful men who not only don't hide in the "ivory tower" - they don't HAVE an ivory tower. They pop into conversations whenever they have time. If a question is asked of another "Zebbit", sometimes it's answered by one of the owners who happened to see it. They aren't monitoring - they are just THERE. Their rules are on one page. Everyone is working together to get Zibbet grown and noticed.

This time was too much. Etsy has spent it's lifetime tossing sellers away, allowing cheap goods in from China while making real artisians document their steps through a project with photographs and in writing. Again it is called being power hungry and money hungry.

AND this time there is no going back to Etsy. I suppose Chad will now use is $10 million in venture capital to expand "hand made goods" but they won't be Made in American and they WON'T be HAND made unless they are done in sweat shops.

Please withhold my name and email. I need to be able to access the remaining inventory I have IN Etsy in order to finish my move to Zibbet.
A.
Reading EcommerceBytes Letters Blog: Fallout from Etsy Feedback Changes Continues
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Readers Comments

Fallout from Etsy Feedback Changes Continues   Fallout from Etsy Feedback Changes Continues
This user has validated their user name. by: Rexford
       
Thu Sep 12 08:38:50 2013
Wow, ETSY sounds like eBay.
Fallout from Etsy Feedback Changes Continues   Fallout from Etsy Feedback Changes Continues
by: felyne This user has validated their user name.
       
Thu Sep 12 09:23:18 2013
The small stores here are going to be hurt by their feedback changes. My guess is they hire people from places like ebay and Amazon and are losing all their originality. Both Zibbet and ArtFire are gaining many more new customers. If sellers were serious about this issue, they would put their stores on vacation or stop renewing items or posting new items until Etsy makes the necessary changes. The sellers have more power than they think they do. They need to get together or 'unionize'. It's not difficult.

I also don't know why sellers don't write to Brooklyn's BBB and NY State Dept of Consumer Protection. How a company of this size that handles this much money can get away without having phone customer service is beyond me. Why sellers stay there is a mystery. Mark threads, copy threads, send them to the BBB. Save your feedback so you don't lose it.

Leave Etsy or put your stores on vacation. A little short term pain for long term gain.  
Fallout from Etsy Feedback Changes Continues   Fallout from Etsy Feedback Changes Continues
This user has validated their user name. by: Bad Hair Day
       
Thu Sep 12 09:40:34 2013
''So the exodus to Zibbet has begun. In fact, Zibbet is being over-run. New shops are popping up every 15 minutes. We have been met by two wonderful men who not only don't hide in the ''ivory tower'' - they don't HAVE an ivory tower. They pop into conversations whenever they have time. If a question is asked of another ''Zebbet'', sometimes it's answered by one of the owners who happened to see it. They aren't monitoring - they are just THERE. Their rules are on one page. Everyone is working together to get Zibbet grown and noticed.''

And here lies the problem :{ In time it will just become another Etsy.The ''Exodus'' to Zibbet has begun.Most likely the resellers of mass produced junk are following right behind since that's what they do....there doesn't seem to be any way to eradicate them and they know it!!! There was a time just a few short years ago when Etsy Admin would pop into the conversations on the discussion boards, and not just to monitor.As it grew, that changed. Etsy became another Ebay. Zebbit will become another Etsy. And the beat goes on......
Fallout from Etsy Feedback Changes Continues   Fallout from Etsy Feedback Changes Continues
This user has validated their user name. by: elpereles
       Web Site
Thu Sep 12 10:08:35 2013
"Wow, ETSY sounds like eBay."

Agree. It looks like they are just emulating the bad stuff from eBay.
Fallout from Etsy Feedback Changes Continues   Fallout from Etsy Feedback Changes Continues
by: GenBro This user has validated their user name.
       
Thu Sep 12 10:11:59 2013
I left Etsy for ArtFire a couple of years ago.  I do have a shop on Etsy but only list a few items just so I have more than one selling venue.  At ArtFire, I found a place to sell where the owners communicate and listen to the sellers.  Yes, they listen and implement new features from our suggestions.

The forum is not moderated with the exception of severe infractions.  Yes, that allows an occasional flare up of drama but those are few and far between. The sellers there are so helpful even to their competitors.  They have volunteers who mentor and guide new sellers to the site who are super wonderful. The administration participates in the forum with clear and concise communication. No double speak.  If they can't improve a feature they let us know why.  If they can, they let us know when.  So refreshing to be away from the cupcake only posts of Etsy.  Their customer service is spot on, too.

Artfire has solved the reseller problem by creating a separate section for commercial sellers.  When we come across pages of bubble necklaces from resellers, we simply report the shop with a link to the wholesale site like alibaba or dh gate and they are moved to commercial within a few hours or a couple of days at most.    ArtFire doesn't shut down their business, they allow them to continue selling, just not permitting the lies that their items are artisan made by hand.  It works well, not perfect, but pretty darn good.

I did consider Zibbet when I made my move but chose to list on Artfire. I have heard good things about Zibbet, too. I love the monthly fee instead of listing and percentage of sales because I can list hundreds of items and have thousands of sales and pay one low monthly amount.  My Etsy fees used to be three digit every month. Yes, I sold a lot, but I still sell a lot and save hundreds of dollars every MONTH! Just like Etsy, there are very successful sellers on ArtFire as well as low qty. sellers and some failures as well.  You have to learn how to sell there just like you have to learn how to sell on Etsy.  We see Etsy sellers try AF but they refuse to rid themselves of the "Etsy way" and usually fail.  If they would just educate themselves on internet selling rather than Etsy selling they could reap the benefits. I hope those moving to Zibbet work to change so they can find success there.  

Etsy is a giant and still has fantastic traffic which makes it a list and sell venue.  But once you build your traffic on Zibbet or Artfire you can sell just as much.  It is sad to see the sellers beg for help from Etsy for years and years with no meaningful response from their administration.  I can't imagine living of fear of being arbitrarily closed down with no explanation or reason provided.  Etsy is a handmade farce and with the influx of resellers, they have no reason to change.  As handmade sellers move on, there is a constant stream of new shops to take their place.  Etsy not only allows them to list as handmade, they teach them how to fix their bio section so they won't get flagged, horrid!

If sellers are not happy with their venue, Etsy, Ebay, ArtFire or Zibbet; why just complain to unhearing staff.  Move on, I did, and it has been great.  I no longer lament the flaws of Etsy and my business has blossomed.
Fallout from Etsy Feedback Changes Continues   Fallout from Etsy Feedback Changes Continues
by: Watching the Wheels This user has validated their user name.
       
Thu Sep 12 11:18:31 2013
@GenBro, Can you PLEASE stop touting Artfire?

Most of the Etsy sellers have ALREADY BEEN THERE AND DONE THAT.

Tony is a "tad" psycho, and the Mavens, insecure, suck up to "any man" mindset women.

I've tracked "their" Artfire sales, in the past and quite a few of them have crept back to Etsy.

What the sellers on Etsy need to do is to complain to the REAL DECISON MAKERS of the site, AKA the Board.

You will get nowhere crying the blues to the site's "mere" employees. Employees cover their paychecks and do not have the the capabilities to truly make REAL DECISIONS. :) The staff does what "IT" needs to do to look "GOOD" in the Board member's eyes.

You know the drill,...

... Busy work.

Etsy sellers need to grow a set, and write to the Board members. IF you cannot see the logic of this, you're not that much different than the Etsy staffers.

Granted, the board members are also "courtesy challenged", and not apt to reply to a given letter. I have, though seen shifts within Etsy, after doing so.

I recommend taking concerns to the REAL leaders of the site.

Chad is NOT one of these people. He was popped into a slot after Kalin played with knives. I never understood how THE PERSON who was chief technical officer when the meta-tags issue was discovered, the timing out of site edits, which created potential BAIT and SWITCH issues merited promotion to CEO, in the first place.

Based upon MY observations, the Etsy staffers do NOT possess the skills or the confidence to challenge the Board. They opt instead to run scared from both the Board and the sellers.

THINK ABOUT IT.
Fallout from Etsy Feedback Changes Continues   Fallout from Etsy Feedback Changes Continues
This user has validated their user name. by: Bob
       
Thu Sep 12 11:39:48 2013
This management sounds exactly like Bonanza.com (which should be called bozo.com)  They are Forum Nazi's.  That's why I left.
Fallout from Etsy Feedback Changes Continues   Fallout from Etsy Feedback Changes Continues
by: Skip This user has validated their user name.
       
Thu Sep 12 11:47:34 2013
I sold on Etsy for about 3 weeks. I design and manufacture women's beaded accessories since 1975. Sales were great on Etsy.

Then I receive a message from someone from Etsy. Asking me to prove that I make the items that
I have posted. Give me a break. My website was provided to them earlier. My attitude was who in
the world are these people at Etsy. Well, I have located a venue that is better then Etsy. It's
not Ebay.

If we allow these sites to tell us what we can and cannot do plus, charge us high fees. Then we are the fools. Now, Etsy has lost my commissions. What they are doing is just the beginning. Get out while you can.

Skip The Shark
Fallout from Etsy Feedback Changes Continues   Fallout from Etsy Feedback Changes Continues
by: Siobhan This user has validated their user name.
       Web Site
Thu Sep 12 12:07:21 2013
@Watching the Wheels, you are correct about artfire. When they first arrived on the scene I was a charter member of their site, never having to pay a monthly fee, ever, was seller of the week one month years ago, and then it all changed. I would have to pay a fee, also pay another fee for ''sellers insurance'' in case someone took me for a ride and on top of that, I could never sell a thing. So I went back to Etsy, but not until I was whipped a few years at ebay.
Fallout from Etsy Feedback Changes Continues   Fallout from Etsy Feedback Changes Continues
by: RCL This user has validated their user name.
       
Thu Sep 12 12:29:30 2013
Etsy has time to correct its course. What ever made anyone think we don't know need seller feedback? How do we find fraud, system abusers, thieves, scammers and MORE importantly, how do we recognize, and acknowledge, the kind of buyers a business should want?? I just lost about 1400 positive feedback at Etsy--all as a buyer! I'm new there again as a returned seller -- who knows me from Adam?
Fallout from Etsy Feedback Changes Continues   Fallout from Etsy Feedback Changes Continues
by: RCL This user has validated their user name.
       
Thu Sep 12 12:30:05 2013
....seller feedback on BUYERS.
Fallout from Etsy Feedback Changes Continues   Fallout from Etsy Feedback Changes Continues
by: GenBro This user has validated their user name.
       
Thu Sep 12 12:30:07 2013
Sorry, I didn't mean any harm, just passing along my experience.  I still sell on Etsy with two shops also.  You will find people who have good and bad experiences on all venues.  It is good to hear from everyone. It should be okay for all to express their first hand results from all venues whether they be good, bad or indifferent.  I learn about other places to sell by reading, that is why I tried it.  Others might benefit.  I haven't tried Zibbet but after reading the information here I am looking into it as another option.  I like to hear the positives as well as then negatives.  I don't have a problem with sellers who love Etsy and certainly don't ask them to stop posting their opinions, to each his own.
Fallout from Etsy Feedback Changes Continues   Fallout from Etsy Feedback Changes Continues
by: Bogart This user has validated their user name.
       
Thu Sep 12 12:59:31 2013
As usual Etsy sellers words fall on deaf ears. Changes made to feedback that were suppose to settle sellers down were a big fat flop. A band-aide solution to a cut 8'' long and bleeding. Serious problems with Etsy writing policies for our stores. My customers can now not leave feedback for there purchase when they want. Customers are unhappy and you can't do a thing about it.  Etsy butting in to my store policies has ruined that.

Oh by the way, there new solution to gather information on sellers is to cherry pick sellers to speak to in private. Not in the forums where there are thousands of questions being asked and being ignored by Etsy, but actually calling sellers behind others sellers backs. Yes you heard it write, the sellers in the forums are ignored while the cherry pick who they want to talk to.

They tell you that they are trying to find out how they can help sellers? Yeah right, then why not go look in the forums where some sellers have waited since June for someone to talk to them. After these talks, these sellers are then paid of with a $50.00 gift card for talking to them. They are picking sellers that are vocal in the forums against them but not enough to chance getting muted and trying to manipulate them and dig for info.

Seriously how old are these Etsy people, two?

All I got to say is thank you etsy for pissing me off enough to get me moving faster and harder in opening my own store. Sick of being your lab rat. Sick of your arrogance and stupidity.
Fallout from Etsy Feedback Changes Continues   Fallout from Etsy Feedback Changes Continues
by: adrian44 This user has validated their user name.
       
Thu Sep 12 13:16:20 2013
It appears we have Triplets! Ebay, Etsy and Bonanza!
Fallout from Etsy Feedback Changes Continues   Fallout from Etsy Feedback Changes Continues
This user has validated their user name. by: Tula
       
Thu Sep 12 14:03:11 2013
@Watching the Wheels:  That's a little harsh. Not everyone has the same problems with a venue that you do. I've also had a terrific experience with ArtFire and agree with GenBro 100%. It's a well-managed site and those running it are constantly innovating and adding new tools and partnerships that help sellers. I don't know as much about Etsy as I haven't focused on it as much as my other venues. I don't hang out in forums, so perhaps I miss a lot of the angsty drama and issues that many have with it and other sites. I do find Etsy's listing process to be long and tedious, though, which is why I've focused elsewhere for the time being.

Honestly, why people get so upset when someone expresses something positive about a venue is beyond me. We all have different business models and needs, so it only stands to reason that some might have better luck on some venues than others. For me, ArtFire has given me consistent and increasing sales, which I can't say for most of the other venues I'm currently using. So they're obviously doing something right, at least when it comes to what I sell.
Fallout from Etsy Feedback Changes Continues   Fallout from Etsy Feedback Changes Continues
by: cayenna This user has validated their user name.
       
Thu Sep 12 14:31:05 2013
I went to Artfire and have not had one sale yet in almost 5 months! And yet I am selling from my etsy and eBay shops so I am not sticking around to pay a venue for no sales. They say they have over 2 million visitors per day then where are they? All I see is people copying designs; visiting sellers seeing what you have made next! Re etsy, I have been there since 2008 and I get sales but everything's been slow lately incl eBay sales till the buying season begins which I believe is slowly starting now. However, etsy just went and removed the only neg feedback that I have ever left on etsy and the seller I left it for deserved it big time. I am very upset about this. So now they just pop in and out and remove feedback because they want to when it DOES comply with their policy which I made sure of before I left it! Also re etsy, it takes almost 3 weeks to a month to get a response from etsy support and then many more emails are necessary after that before they actually get what I am talking about and then I will be VERY lucky if anything is done! So I am very turned off by the unprofessionalism...to put it lightly. There is literally no longer any support for me/us as a seller left and esp since they made the feedback changes. They have definitely become another eBay! I am so sick of people that end up on a high horse and ruin something that everyone has been an eBay alternative. This has really gotten old. I agree we need to really complain even though I doubt it will do any good. By the time some of us get done we will have sold on literally every venue that seemed to be good alternatives; there has to be a better way of selling online than this. I have a website but no sales there either. What is going on? Is it impossible to have any 'uncontrolled' visibility anymore? :-(
Fallout from Etsy Feedback Changes Continues   Fallout from Etsy Feedback Changes Continues
by: StevenM This user has validated their user name.
       
Thu Sep 12 14:54:34 2013
If sellers were a majority of the ''board'' and a majority of stockholders, do you think it would be run differently?
Fallout from Etsy Feedback Changes Continues   Fallout from Etsy Feedback Changes Continues
by: Sierra This user has validated their user name.
       
Thu Sep 12 15:03:41 2013
I've been registered on eBay since it was AuctionWeb. I've had an Etsy shop for 7+ years. Both have been ok to very good from time to time. I have tried ArtFire and Zibbet, both for a couple of years and yes, I *really* tried them ... not just list and run. The only items I sold on ArtFire were to a customer who had SEEN my things on Etsy but who didn't want to open an account there; at that time one could shop on ArtFire without having an account. As for Zibbet, I never sold a darned thing there at all.

Many Etsy sellers tout the importance of having your OWN web site. Been there, done that too ... for more than 10 years (starting in May 1997). I sold less in the whole time I had my web site than I did on Etsy last year.

I don't like Etsy's latest changes w.r.t. feedback (now called reviews). I thank my customers privately and don't have the need to do so publicly (though I would if I could), but it *would* be nice to see feedback on buyers because, unfortunately, they're not all perfect and awesome.

I need to go list some more things on Etsy now. Have a great day!
Fallout from Etsy Feedback Changes Continues   Fallout from Etsy Feedback Changes Continues
by: Danielle This user has validated their user name.
       
Thu Sep 12 17:36:05 2013
My posting in the Etsy forums this past weekend in which I was outlining the dangerous repercussions of this unilateral feedback system has been removed the same day. Needless to say, the Etsy moderator in charge for the day did not address my concerns, even though many other Sellers acknowledged and supported the posting and the content.
For a split second I had a deja vu experience and a suspicion that this ''eBay style'' measure is preparing us for some change of direction soon to come, bigger than we can even imagine. Are we to live through an eBay takeover? How else can we explain this measure that proved historically (see eBay) to be so detrimental to Sellers? Why would Etsy repeat history by adopting (out of ALL the possible ''improvement measures'') exactly that which, in the case of eBay created dissent and chaos for independent Sellers and caused mass migration from eBay? What exactly IS behind it?
It goes against everything commerce is: a fair trade agreement between TWO parties that should benefit both. This balance of power and responsibility between Seller and Buyer is the core of any transaction anywhere.
The fact that Etsy explains this measure as a response to a ''Sellers'request'' to eliminate feedback for Buyers seems an insult to our intelligence. Apparently, according to Etsy, ''Sellers'' expressed that they do not like leaving feedback for Buyers, because it is time consuming!?!
There has been NO public opinion poll on this matter even though the forums refer to ''Sellers expressed....''
The change to the system is so poorly thought of that it can not provide ANY positive result but chaos.
I also heard the all familiar ''in order to improve the Buyer's experience'' explanation as well, something we heard ad nauseam, to the point that it lost its meaning, becoming an umbrella term for everything weird, crooked and shoddy....a la eBay.
Why does this all sound so familiar? I guess we will live to see.

 
Fallout from Etsy Feedback Changes Continues   Fallout from Etsy Feedback Changes Continues
by: sundance This user has validated their user name.
       
Thu Sep 12 21:22:41 2013
Original Poster:  I'm not far behind you ... have most of mine moved and signed up for Premium account on Zibbet.
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