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Julia Wilkinson AuctionBytes Blog
Covering auctions, collectibles and marketplace selling.

Julia Wilkinson is Editor of the AuctionBytes Blog and is author of the "eBay Price Guide," "eBay Top 100 Simplified Tips and Tricks," "My Life at AOL" and numerous ebooks about selling online. You can also find her writing on Yard Salers.
Tue Dec 14 2010 21:25:51

PayPal to Let Top Buyers Pay for Items After Delivery

By: Ina Steiner
Sponsored Link
PayPal is testing a "Pay After Delivery" program in which some members of its top-buyer program can pay for items 2 weeks after making a purchase and after they have verified receipt of their goods. The program applies to all PayPal purchases, not just on eBay.

The benefit applies to certain members of its PayPal Advantage program, which gives PayPal top buyers benefits such as dedicated, senior support-agents and faster dispute resolution; buyers must spend $5,000 in the past 12 months to qualify as a PayPal Advantage member.

On Tuesday, a buyer who is part of the PayPal Advantage loyalty program posted in the eBay forums a letter they received from PayPal about the Pay After Delivery program:

As a member of PayPal Advantage, you have early access to some of our newest products and services, before they're available to the rest of the PayPal community. You're invited to try Pay After Delivery, a brand new feature that allows you to get your order and make sure it's right - before you pay.

Here's how it works.
1. Checkout as usual, but choose Pay After Delivery as your payment method. PayPal pays the seller upfront, so there's no delay in shipping and no money is deducted from your account.

2. Receive and verify your purchase. If you have any problems let us know in our Resolution Center.

3. If you're satisfied, that's it. We'll automatically withdraw the money from your bank account 14 days after your purchase."

To add Pay After Delivery as a payment method in your account, simply make a purchase using PayPal and accept the offer shown to you during checkout.

There are several benefits to PayPal in offering such a program. The first is to encourage top buyers to spend more. Psychologically, if they aren't paying when they purchase items, they may be inclined to spend more.

Secondly, PayPal moves the transaction to an ACH transaction, which cost PayPal much less than credit card processing. In addition, PayPal then has complete control over the dispute process. (When using credit cards as a funding source, buyers have the option of disputing transactions or filing chargebacks through the credit card companies. And since PayPal also offers seller protection, it wants to be the sole arbiter of disputes.)

PayPal is only offering the Pay After Delivery program to Top Buyers, people who spend thousands of dollars with the company each year, and it accesses their bank accounts to withdraw the money owed it.

Sellers are likely to be concerned upon hearing about the Pay After Delivery program.

1) Will sellers have to send items before being paid?

No - in the letter above, PayPal says it pays the sellers upfront.

2) Will buyers be more likely to return items since they haven't yet paid for them ("try it before you buy it"), and if so, will PayPal make it easy for them to change their minds about purchases?

This is a bit difficult to answer. However, PayPal already extended its buyer protection to all transactions on or off eBay last month, so sellers are already at risk if buyers express dissatisfaction (Item not Received or Significantly Not as Described).

Nevertheless, the fact that the seller or merchant has no control over the Pay After Delivery program may be disconcerting.



Comments (43) | Permalink
Readers Comments

PayPal to Let Top Buyers Pay for Items After Delivery   PayPal to Let Top Buyers Pay for Items After Delivery
by: Cadia
       
Tue Dec 14 21:50:58 2010
Paypal already offers Bill Me Later, so isn't this program somewhat redundant?

Even if I were eligible for the program, I would not use it.  the less I have to deal with Paypal, the better!
PayPal to Let Top Buyers Pay for Items After Delivery   PayPal to Let Top Buyers Pay for Items After Delivery
This user has validated their user name. by: Ming the Merciless
       
Tue Dec 14 22:10:57 2010
Ebafia is infamous for delivering jumbo jet loads of horse manure, but this one is among the worst ever.

Not only does this invite returns, sellers who sell brand new merchandise (by ebay's definition) won't technically be able to re sell the item as brand new.

It also will increase claims against ebay sellers thereby further eliminating more and more ebafia seller discounts which is another of this abomination's underlying purposes, IMO.

I gave PayPal the boot last month from my own website and will be looking more closely at few e payment alternatives ebafia so graciously permits.

Those who sell clothing, er excuse me, 'fashion' and jewelry will be be victimized the most frequently as the well healed, narcissistic fashionistas will now have unlimited source of new outfits to wear.

Will ebafia-pal require the item be returned with tags exactly as received -- clean and undamaged?

Probably not.

I can't wait for the class action on this one.

The greed of this criminal syndicate is beyond breathtaking.
PayPal to Let Top Buyers Pay for Items After Delivery   PayPal to Let Top Buyers Pay for Items After Delivery
by: Shamus O' Troll
       Web Site
Tue Dec 14 22:21:22 2010
"1) Will sellers have to send items before being paid?

No - in the letter above, PayPal says it pays the sellers upfront. "

PayPal has definitional twist with what constitutes being, "Paid."

When monies are held for any reason they assert that the seller has been paid but the payment is "pending" awaiting further hoop jumping.

In this newest "contrivance" they state that the monies owed by these lucky buyers will be debited from their bank accounts which will have the effect of:

1) Eliminating any credit card processing fee that they would normally be expected to cough up.

2)Stripping the unsuspecting purchaser of their REAL buyer protection plan, the credit card charge back if the deal goes sour.

This current PayPal canard of masking profit maximization in the wolf's clothing of a "benefit" for "Advantage" members is just another example of pi$$ing on the legs of their untutored clientele while proclaiming loudly that it is raining.

This unethical crowd would steal the pennies off a dead man's eyes and call it an act of charity.
PayPal to Let Top Buyers Pay for Items After Delivery   PayPal to Let Top Buyers Pay for Items After Delivery
by: Happy Asalark
       
Tue Dec 14 22:29:19 2010
I'm one of the fortunate ones who will NOT be affected by the newest PayPal ''try-it-before-you-buy-it'' scheme to encourage dishonest buyers to screw sellers.

I'm now exempt from PayPal's silly games and gimmicks! Yay me!

PayPal to Let Top Buyers Pay for Items After Delivery   PayPal to Let Top Buyers Pay for Items After Delivery
by: Chuck-Chuck Bo-Buck
       
Tue Dec 14 23:01:44 2010
The more I think about this, the more I don't like it. This doesn't benefit anyone's business! (Except PayPal of course.)

In fact, it puts businesses (and their profits) at risk!

I imagine that most people who read AuctionBytes do not run a try before you buy service. I'll bet the sellers here do not sell items ''on approval''.

From what I've seen from the regulars around here... most all have a refund/exchange policy that is fair and reasonable. Customers don't need extra ''protection'' like this. Merchants don't need the risk that this creates.

It's an BRIGHT FLASHING NEON SIGN that invites fraud. It encourages (and rewards) buyers-remourse... all at the expense of small sellers who are the ones who can least afford to the cost of such luxurious ''customer service'' benefits.

Google checkout and Elavon (Costco credit card acceptance) are the two remaining payment options on my ecommerce site... I dropped PayPal over the summer. Best thing I ever did!!

Every time eBay and PayPal come up with a new scheme I ask myself ''dear god what were they thinking?!''

And every time, the answer is: ''they weren't thinking!''

These types of schemes will do NOTHING to increase overall sales and will only cause MORE FRAUD and INCREASED RISK that just aren't worth it.

Wake up folks!! WAKE UP!!

I pity those who have no choice but to use PayPal and I hope you all eventually reach the point where an alternate payment processor makes the most economical sense for your business.

Those who have the ability to DUMP paypal, but don't, are being very foolish.
PayPal to Let Top Buyers Pay for Items After Delivery   PayPal to Let Top Buyers Pay for Items After Delivery
by: FYI
       
Tue Dec 14 23:22:11 2010
You should be aware that there's a movement afoot to quiet eBay dissenters. This, from eBay Voices Member and Certified Educator Danna Crawford to other Voices members:

I never cared for Auction bytes as I avoid it and never recommend it because of the drama and this is a perfect example of crazy drama. geesh

I suggest everyone BOYCOTT and never share, tweet, or promote the site because the site feeds on eBay drama. Not a good idea for eBay instructors to share sites like this with students. People that are NEW wanting to learn eBay. This kind of nonsense will confuse them and it gives eBay selling a bad name in my opinion.

All the best,
Danna Crawford
V43

Some members are also being encouraged to start rumors that eBay is tracking and punishing critics who post on outside forums. Yes folks, THIS is how desparate eBay is becoming!!
PayPal to Let Top Buyers Pay for Items After Delivery   PayPal to Let Top Buyers Pay for Items After Delivery
by: Peggy Sue
       
Tue Dec 14 23:47:07 2010
To poster ''FYI'':

You're absolutely correct. I can admire Danna's enthusiasm and loyalty... but based on first-hand personal experience, a promising and mutually benefitting relationship with her quickly turned sour when I made a passing remark that was slightly critical of ebay.

Instead of discussing my comment, and instead of challenging me (ie: asking for more info, or explaining her POV) she chose the same PASSIVE-AGGRESSIVE response of ignoring me and cutting me out of her ''inner-circle'' and (apparently) recommending that others do the same.

The ''adult'' equivalent of sticking out one's tongue. ''Nyaaah! So there! We're just going to ignore YOOOU! Poopyface!''

I suppose that's ONE way to handle confrontation or differences of opinion. But that doesn't mean it's the BEST way... and in my opinion, it's a rather petty and immature way to handle things.

To Quote Danna: ''This kind of nonsense will confuse them and it gives eBay selling a bad name in my opinion.''

Sorry, Danna... eBay already has a bad name. New sellers deserve to hear the TRUTH. Pretending that something isn't true, doesn't make it go away. You can't IGNORE the truth.

Well, I take that back... I guess *you* can ignore (and ''avoid'') the truth, but it solves nothing.
PayPal to Let Top Buyers Pay for Items After Delivery   PayPal to Let Top Buyers Pay for Items After Delivery
This user has validated their user name. by: permacrisis
       
Wed Dec 15 00:01:05 2010
On principle, I know this idea can work, as I used to do it- ship ahead of payment- on used electronics. This was back when I took checks money orders and McDonalds gift certificates. Of 300+ transactions at that time, 2 people screwed me. To me that was an acceptable shrink ratio- well below that of brick and mortar stores. Of course, the atmosphere at that time was one of membership, not brinkmanship!

When Amazon came out with ''pay when ship'' I thought they were going to implement it this way, but they didn't.

As ideas go, it's neither bad nor good. The scheme would lure the bad buyers out of the woodwork, but it would also reveal who the return-happy bad apples were in a damn hurry... the buyers who could potentially cost eBay in the end.

The worrisome part of course is that it involves PayPal. Therefore any potential good that can come of this- like having a set of human eyeballs watching the buyer's every move- will likely go untapped.

PayPal to Let Top Buyers Pay for Items After Delivery   PayPal to Let Top Buyers Pay for Items After Delivery
by: Smitty This user has validated their user name.
       
Wed Dec 15 00:09:49 2010
''Pay After Delivery'' is superfluous as ebay/PayPal already has NPFIaKIT (never pay for item and keep it too) in place. Any skilled scammer who is knowledgeable regarding SNAD complaints, already knows how to ''Not Pay After Delivery''

Smitty
PayPal to Let Top Buyers Pay for Items After Delivery   PayPal to Let Top Buyers Pay for Items After Delivery
by: Our House
       
Wed Dec 15 00:36:13 2010
''I suggest everyone BOYCOTT and never share, tweet, or promote the site because the site feeds on eBay drama. Not a good idea for eBay instructors to share sites like this with students.''

HA! LOL! --- Ms. Crawford's opinion of her importance and the influence she has exceeds reality. Her comments will have NO effect on AB, except perhaps to raise curiosity and drive visitors here to find out what's got her panties in a knot.
PayPal to Let Top Buyers Pay for Items After Delivery   PayPal to Let Top Buyers Pay for Items After Delivery
by: Mr. Obvious
       Web Site
Wed Dec 15 02:34:59 2010
Does The PowerSelling Mom still advertise on Auction Bytes?

Keep an eye on how many eBay Ink Social Media Sellers also have ''Education Programs'' for new comers. Vampires always need fresh blood.

There are a lot of people trying to make money during this recession and steering newbies to PayPal and eBay.

Get too many new on-trap-manures reading AB and newbies might start to wonder what that is, floating in the kool-aid punchbowl.  
PayPal to Let Top Buyers Pay for Items After Delivery   PayPal to Let Top Buyers Pay for Items After Delivery
by: Shamus O' Troll
       
Wed Dec 15 06:20:51 2010
"I suggest everyone BOYCOTT and never share, tweet, or promote the site because the site feeds on eBay drama. Not a good idea for eBay instructors to share sites like this with students. People that are NEW wanting to learn eBay. This kind of nonsense will confuse them and it gives eBay selling a bad name in my opinion.

All the best,
Danna Crawford
V43"

LOL! Only eBay could turn some old lady seller into a jackbooted fascist enforcer.

These "CERTIFIED EDUCATIONAL SPECIALISTS" are the lightning rod salesmen of the eBay community.

As Mr. Obvious observed, these people count on a never ending supply of gullible "newbies" to feed their rapacious appetite for money and in pre-Internet days were peddling get rich working at home addressing envelopes schemes.

Parasites all and when you see one so ill advised as to flex her virtual "muscles" it is a case study in delusional thinking.

LOL!

Remember, Ms. Crawford, even rats and collaborators are grist for eBay's unscrupulous mill and can be, like dissenters, ground increasingly fine, if your corporate masters see an extra penny's profit in doing so.


PayPal to Let Top Buyers Pay for Items After Delivery   PayPal to Let Top Buyers Pay for Items After Delivery
by: Pat Toomey
       
Wed Dec 15 07:45:36 2010
Seems to me that this isn't much different than the 100% buyer protection PayPal already has in place. It does make me think that the wording might make buyers feel more comfortable returning items for arbitrary reasons. Nevertheless, it's just another reason that sellers are going to have to suck it up, and deal with another potential hurdle...
PayPal to Let Top Buyers Pay for Items After Delivery   PayPal to Let Top Buyers Pay for Items After Delivery
by: Gary
       
Wed Dec 15 07:47:04 2010
Most of the links on that site don't work yet
PayPal to Let Top Buyers Pay for Items After Delivery   PayPal to Let Top Buyers Pay for Items After Delivery
by: 666
       
Wed Dec 15 08:23:50 2010
''PayPal pays the seller upfront'' Then what freeze funds associated with the transaction until buyer is happy? Then delay, delay, delay while trying to get buyer to complain so they can keep holding the money?

''PayPal then has complete control over the dispute process'' of course and probably money as well?

Paypals site URL ought to be PAYPAL.COMMIES after all they are owned by ebay.con (sorry for the typo)

Department of homeland security everything you are looking for is in one place.
PayPal to Let Top Buyers Pay for Items After Delivery   PayPal to Let Top Buyers Pay for Items After Delivery
by: Rupert Pupkin
       
Wed Dec 15 10:44:25 2010
"You should be aware that there's a movement afoot to quiet eBay dissenters. This, from eBay Voices Member and Certified Educator Danna Crawford to other Voices members:"

Here's one Voices Member getting marching orders from the "Voices" in her head.
PayPal to Let Top Buyers Pay for Items After Delivery   PayPal to Let Top Buyers Pay for Items After Delivery
by: Rick1313
       
Wed Dec 15 11:00:02 2010
Well, it is evident that eBay,inc./PayPal wants to program buyers NOT to use their credit cards as buyers on this program must have a link to a funded bank account.

As mentioned in AB blog, this saves PayPal a ton of money in that they will not have to pay the credit card companies any transaction fee (remember, PayPal, not seller, is the one doing the transaction with credit card companies).

If PayPal would expand this program, would PayPal pass some of the savings to sellers? After all, PayPal fees are based on their expenses.

Yes, seller can get an advantage as this program eliminates the possibility of a chargeback. However...

Sellers have no idea of buyer's funding source or if they are in a ''bonus'' program. From what I read here, this scenario is possible...

1. Buyer purchases item on the program.

2. PayPal automatically and conditionally credits seller (all PayPal transaction are credits and not actual payments until buyer has no more refund avenues to pursue) and says, ''ship it out''.

3. Buyer receives package (wont get into the question of ''what happens after 14 days if package has yet to arrive?'') and notifies PayPal (how many will NOT OR FORGET to do this?) that everything is hunky-dory (however, seller has no access to this info).

5. A short time latter, and within the 45 day limit, buyer contacts seller and says, ''Hey! I have a problem with your item.'', and opens a SNAD dispute, escalates to claim and ships back the item.

6. PayPal refunds with no questions asked (at what date is buyer saying they have a problem  with the purchase) and without telling seller that buyer had previously said that all was well with the transaction.

So, we have a case where buyer says everything is okay and then changes mind, but PayPal will not let the seller have access to this information.

It is still better than a chargeback after 45 days, but here is another likely scenario that will most probably be happening in the near future (2011?)...

PayPal will EXTEND the INR and SNAD filing dates from 45 days to whatever they feel they can get away with (60? 75? 90?) and show buyers that they give protection time frames more in line with credit card companies.

eBay.inc,/PayPal is trying to convince buyers that they are, basically a credit card company that buyer does not have to worry about paying interest or a user fee, as long as payment is funded from a banking source.

eBay,inc. is the shepherd that they hope the sheep herd (buyers) will blindly follow.

With PayPal fully entrenched in buyers' mind, sellers will have to keep using PayPal (the objective being ''forcing'' sellers not to eliminate PayPal) or lose many sales as buyers will think that there is something not-quite-right with a seller who will not take PayPal.

We already see this ''conditioning'' in the way eBay,inc. integrated the current Accepted Payments Policy (which breaches the User Agreement) into the transaction process a couple of years ago.

Recently, in Australia, they tried to force PayPal only for electronic payments. Of course they were forced to give other options (which they knew they would have to eventually do) but, in the meantime, buyers were conditioned to see only PayPal for eBay purchases and this had them sign up with PayPal.

In trying to eliminate/reduce credit cards from the transaction process, PayPal get's further away with a highly questionable part of the UA, re: their handling of chargebacks.

PayPal says they will act for you in a chargeback claim. However...

It is PayPal that is liable to credit card processors, not sellers. They (and other such payment processors) are transferring THEIR liability to the users (sellers) and including a chargeback fee (!?!!). The fact that PayPal says you have to take them to court to find out how they acted in your defense brings the whole payment process and their good faith into question.

How would you like a lawyer you are paying to say to you, ''Sorry, I cannot give you any information about your court case. If you do not like it, take me to court.''

What I would not give to be in a courtroom and see eBay,inc. explain their various UA's and policies.

Wait! I will be! Twice! And a potential third one in the making.

My, my, my......

Lastly, I have this question/comment for Mr. Scott Thompson and his ''PayPalians'' video clip...

''PayPalians''? Are you serious?!?!?!
PayPal to Let Top Buyers Pay for Items After Delivery   PayPal to Let Top Buyers Pay for Items After Delivery
by: Rick1313
       
Wed Dec 15 11:04:55 2010
Correcting a line in my last entry.

''Yes, seller can get an advantage as this program eliminates the possibility of a CREDIT CARD chargeback. However...''
PayPal to Let Top Buyers Pay for Items After Delivery   PayPal to Let Top Buyers Pay for Items After Delivery
by: Shamus O' Troll
       
Wed Dec 15 12:15:33 2010
"We already see this ''conditioning'' in the way eBay,inc. integrated the current Accepted Payments Policy (which breaches the User Agreement) into the transaction process a couple of years ago."

"Conditioned", like white rats in a Skinner Box, "Conditioned."

Like Pavlov's Dogs, "Conditioned."

PayPal rings a bell and their members begin to salivate, "Conditioned."
PayPal to Let Top Buyers Pay for Items After Delivery   PayPal to Let Top Buyers Pay for Items After Delivery
by: buck efay
       
Wed Dec 15 12:54:08 2010
Report this next fraud to incoming Governor Jerry Brown of California. Voice your concerns over handing over your goods without payment upfront! I think this will allow the parts exchangers free reign, as they won't even have to upfront the funds before they receive the goods, can swap & return before 24 days go by. Be sure to carefully document all erlectronics/computers etc before shipment. I'd be more concerned if Ebay could manage a higher STR than 9%, for that I can't even bother to pay to use Ebay.
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