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Covering auctions, collectibles and marketplace selling.

AuctionBytes Blog The AuctionBytes Blog has been giving a voice to online merchants since its launch in 2005. Named one of the world's top 30 blogs in 2008 by "Blogging Heroes." Weigh in with your thoughts on the joys and pitfalls of selling online.
Tue Jan 29 2008 07:57:17

Upcoming Changes to Feedback on eBay

By: David Steiner
Sponsored Link

Feedback on eBay certainly has taken a few left turns since Pierre's initial concept that allowed trading partners to rate each other. In probably the most dramatic deviation, Sellers will no longer be allowed to leave Negative or Neutral feedback for Buyers. There are some other changes, which can be found here: http://pages.ebay.com/services/forum/new.html but this is the most interesting paragraph:

What changes are being made to the eBay Feedback system?

There are five key elements to the new Feedback system being introduced in the first half of 2008:

   1. Beginning in February, buyers and sellers will be able to earn up to one Feedback per week from the same trading partner. Today, members may only affect each other's Feedback scores one time, regardless of the number of transactions between the parties. This change will both encourage repeat transactions and reward good service.
   2. Sellers will no longer be able to leave negative or neutral Feedback for buyers. This change will occur in May, 2008.
   3. Removal of negative and neutral Feedback left by members who are suspended or who fail to respond to the Unpaid Item Process (UPI).
   4. Positive Feedback percentage will be based on the past 12 months of Feedback, rather than lifetime, since it is most indicative of the seller's recent performance.
   5. Restrictions on when Feedback can be left:
          * Buyers must wait three days before leaving negative or neutral Feedback
          * Instead of 90 days, members will be able to leave Feedback for 60 days

----

We'll be speaking with John Donohoe later today, so if you have any specific questions, post them here before noon, and we'll try to incorporate the best ones in our interview.

Call 1-877-222-0856 and leave a 60 second message about what you think of these changes.

 

 


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Upcoming Changes to Feedback on eBay   Upcoming Changes to Feedback on eBay
by: ummmm
       
Fri Feb 1 23:39:05 2008
Well, ebay's stock went up 7% today. Wall Street has spoken, they can read between the lines that 80% of the sellers will pay higher fees, and Dan Burke or whoever will continue to taunt the real sellers like us to split, not that we aren't scoping around already. So here's a thought. As a seller, how do we push the limits? Here's a scenario, list your item at 2x the normal price, have it be immediate payment only, and in the text, give a link to a benign website you have opened. On that website, say "tired of ebay sellers raising their prices to compensate for higher fees? type blahblah.com into a new tab of your browser to eliminate those tacked on fees" Push the ebay link trolls to their limits. You could even make them go to two separate websites before getting to yours, as long as the prices on your real site blow away what sellers on ebay charge. All it takes is a few good bookmarkers that will tag your site, and you can get it going. If you are selling grandma's mink coat for .01 no reserve, then this advice isn't going to work for you. Have fun on ebay with that, but I believe this thread is mostly real sellers who are concerned. Concerned enough to try what I just mentioned.
Upcoming Changes to Feedback on eBay   Upcoming Changes to Feedback on eBay
This user has validated their user name. by: Ming the Merciless
       
Sat Feb 2 00:41:31 2008
Dan Jurke: If sellers can stand a "little shrinkage," please post your home address here and leave your front door open so that I can come to your home and do a little shrinkage on your home inventory.

Hmmm...I'l think I'll start with all your electronics, jewelry, and small appliances. Be sure to leave all the pertinent information taped to them, so I know whether your stuff is really worth "shrinking" or not. After all, you should be able to withstand a little skrinkage close to home without whining about it don't you think?

ANY buyer who leaves me provably unjustified feedback will be sued in my local district federal court and any buyer who attempts a "little shrinkage" will be getting a visit from their local police because I'll file criminal charges for credit card fraud and theft by deception.

Is that "friendly" enough for you?

Upcoming Changes to Feedback on eBay   Upcoming Changes to Feedback on eBay
This user has validated their user name. by: Ming the Merciless
       
Sat Feb 2 00:44:46 2008
Garbanzo: a colorless little bean that creates a lot of noxious, odiferous gas.

Hasta la vista.
Upcoming Changes to Feedback on eBay   Upcoming Changes to Feedback on eBay
by: Gary Buck
       
Sat Feb 2 02:49:27 2008
I'm a buyer, and I used to be afraid of leaving a neutral or negative feedback even when the seller didn't get everything just right.  Many times, I would pay right away and have to wait two weeks or more to get my shit.  Or they would force me to buy fucking insurance.  Those days are over and gone.  Unfortunately, eBay had to force sellers to fall in line with their customer service bedside manner and have given the buyers the right to enforce it, and enforce it I will.  If I get a bad experience again you can bet that I wont be afraid to leave a bloody negative, and for that matter I will if necessary make the comment so vivid, the seller will feel as if he or she just got fucked by an elephant !
Upcoming Changes to Feedback on eBay   Upcoming Changes to Feedback on eBay
by: Garbanzo
       
Sat Feb 2 03:20:31 2008
I think eBay might be better off without some of these complainers.  Just look at some of these posts.  If these guys are as unprofessional in running their businesses as they are in posting some of this ridiculous nonsense, then it's no wonder eBay wants rid of them. Seriously, all this whining like babies is no way to run a business.  Nobody is forcing you to use eBay in your business.  If you don't like the rules or the costs, go find another venue.  Face it, eBay owns the platform so they can do whatever they want.  They might be shooting themselves in the foot if their rules drive away sellers, but that's their prerogative.  

Ming, I send that noxious gas in your general direction :-p
Upcoming Changes to Feedback on eBay   Upcoming Changes to Feedback on eBay
by: SHOCKED!
       
Sat Feb 2 04:41:07 2008
Dan Burke, Gary Buck, & Garbage..oops..I mean Garbanzo. Doesn't really matter how you spell their names, let's just call them WHACKO! You guys really do take the cake, probably created from a mixture of illicit drugs, antipsychotics, and Viagra to make yourselves feel big - a whopping 3''.

Where you three abused and feel the need to retaliate against all of society, ruin what used to be a good auction site, that is eBay? Get a life and leave the business world to the grown ups. Throw your temper tantrums somewhere else.

The WHACKO's comments show the serious problem with eBay. EBay's new policies are going to let all of these monkeys loose and destroy their already fading reputation. There WILL be a mass exodus of sellers if these changes really do go forth. Do you hear me eBay, listen to your present sellers before you lose them.

What a pity. EBay used to be a neat site to do some business, an equal playing field for all visitors. I understand the frustrations of the buyers too but to play the broken eBay system to the extreme just to hurt the sellers is nuts.

If you like buying items on eBay you sure don't want to run off its sellers. You will just be hurting yourself, that is if you truly like to shop on eBay and are not just out to create meaningless havoc. If the latter is the case then PLEASE take your destructive pleasures elsewhere.

I will participate in the boycott Feb. 18-25th in order to hopefully make eBay's hierarchy aware of the massive amount of seller's disgusted with their strikingly poor new policies.
EBay Wake Up!
Upcoming Changes to Feedback on eBay   Upcoming Changes to Feedback on eBay
by: Say NO to Donahoe
       
Sat Feb 2 05:11:23 2008
Can someone answer this one, because it's unclear.  1. If someone finalizes 10 auctions, and wants to leave positives, they can only leave 1 per week?  But cannot leave feedback after 8 weeks under the new policy?  This means, we will lose 2 positives as they can only leave 1 per week, right?  1 per week only adds up to 8 feedbacks per 60 days.
2. If they can only leave 1 feedback per week, are the buyers that order more than 1 item going to 'remember' to leave the other 8 feedbacks...1 every week?  Am I reading this right? If this is the case the feedback ratio will worsen more then we are thinking it will just for this key point.
----Can someone fill us in on this? Trying to get things clear on how this is all supposed to actually work.  I completely agree with 'ALL' Sellers everywhere, this feedback change is a really bad move.----
Final point, for a company who is so big on the 'feedback scheme' why does eBay not allow their customers (sellers & buyers) to rate them in the same fashion  with comments and DSR's, to 'ensure' they are delivering the service level they should be at and expect their sellers to be. My guess is, it wouldn't look good, because they cannot provide better pricing, better service, or better communication that is so magnified on eBay for any seller.
Upcoming Changes to Feedback on eBay   Upcoming Changes to Feedback on eBay
by: Dan Burke
       
Sat Feb 2 05:30:26 2008
Instead of a "Whole lot of shaking going on", There's going to be a "whole lot of NEGGING going on" !  Let's cream these sissies ! ;~}   I think they're scared now !    Oooh, retribution is sweeeeet !
Upcoming Changes to Feedback on eBay   Upcoming Changes to Feedback on eBay
by: Glen
       
Sat Feb 2 05:38:53 2008
Hello Ina,
Blocking sellers from leaving negative feedback is nothing other than Feedback Manipulation done by eBay itself.
It is all about the $.
EBay states they want to improve the seller's performance.
What a hoot.
Let the fair and unrestricted market place determine if the seller is worthy of a purchase from.
EBay has been and is setting the stage for self destruction.
I for one power seller maintain a 4.8 or higher in all categories of the DSR's and I have not received a negative in the past 4 years and only one neutral due to the buyer not reading the auction text.
This is not easy and I work hard at doing that.
DSR's are a farce.
How in the world can someone rate a seller on the shipping time?
I send out my packages almost moments after the sale and no later than the first shipping day available.
Why do I only have a 4.9 rating there?
All that the DSR's are is an instrument for eBay to attempt to integrate the shipping cost (which is overall just that) into the final value fee of the auction.
When this misguided policy of the eBay brain children who are paid mega bucks to sabotage the entire auction experience results in one negative from a buyer, I will simply transfer my entire inventory of almost 2000 items to my web site and Amazon.
EBay will be history for me and I do not need the aggravation of a dictator minded management team who constantly hammers my efforts to maintain an upright and profitable business.
Let the buyer leave a positive and then do his thing on the DSR's if he has a problem with the auction.
To purposely manipulate the feedback system is a travesty eBay is doing.
EBay should be suspended for feedback manipulation tactics.
I might be money ahead to simply cancel all auctions and send eBay a couple of thousand each month for no sales.
It is getting to the point that eBay is taking too much of the pie and they are making more overall profit than I am on an item.
What a farce the incretion fee cut is and the overall is a overall large price raise for many categories.
The song and dance that eBay has done here is rather comical but expensive.
With the price reduction in incretion fees, I can list five of the higher dollar items I sell instead of four.
What a steal they have put in place.
eBay needs to get back to their basics and the core values they started with before it is too late.
If there is someone on the board of directors who is paying attention, they need to get their head out of the sand and stop this planned and continual assault on the seller.
The seller is eBay’s customer and the buyer is the seller's customer.
Concentrate on the fraud that is running amuck on eBay and leave the sellers alone to sell and the buyers to buy.
EBay states they are only a venue to bring the seller and buyer together.
Well, let the marketplace work and stop the hammering of the seller into the ground.
Thank you Ina for the soapbox as it seems this is the only place someone will listen.
If there is a February Boycott to not list items, count me in.
I have 800 high dollar auctions sitting here waiting for the listing fee reduction that I will not list on eBay in February.
They will go to my website only, thank you very much.
After all, listing there is relative free for me.
Regards,
Glen
Upcoming Changes to Feedback on eBay   Upcoming Changes to Feedback on eBay
This user has validated their user name. by: Ming the Merciless
       
Sat Feb 2 05:46:07 2008
Some quick points about Wall Street:

-- A 7% increase in a steadily downward trending stock on a day in which the Dow was up generally actually signals very little.
-- Ebay fee increases have historically bumped up ebay stock. The proof that ebay's strategy is successful will be whether ebay can maintain this minuscule momentum throughout 2008 in a major recessionary economy. I believe the German analyst got it right, and the American analysts can't quite shed their ebay cheerleader uniforms yet.
-- Bear Stearns has told ebay their stock should reach $38 per share by the end of 2008. With a business plan that's creating enemies out of their customers, that is creating new business for their competition, and that will conspire to defraud sellers by aiding abetting crimes, do you really believe it's realistic to think ebay's stock is going to increase 25% to 33% in the next eleven months during a recession?
-- Ebay has already lost the Buy It Now lawsuit (the 'expropriated' someone's patented software again and got caught. If the court orders Ebay to cease and desist using Buy It Now, what kind of impact would this have on ebay stock? Certainly not positive!
-- So far, Tiffany hasn't folded and settled their lawsuit against ebay. If Tiffany wins, all sorts of new cans of worms can potentially be opened and, if there's one thing Wall Street hates, it's uncertainty. Add uncertainty to non performance and incompetent management, and you've got the best possible recipe for stock value disaster.

Wall Street will be looking closely at ebay's third quarter results which will be the first quarter that all recently announced changed will be in effect. My guess is that between now and then we'll see all sorts of creative accounting and statistical manipulations take place to cover up what's really happening with ebay. You know, things like offering incentives for international sellers to list on the American site in order to artificially jack up the stats when, in fact, ebay is merely rearranging the deck chairs on the Titanic.

Another thing sellers can do who may have retirement or other investment accounts is to check to see if they unknowingly own any ebay stock and dump it if they do.

And, as for the above hold your nose trash the Donna Hoes dragged in here, they're Exhibit A for why these changes will promote a lot of blackmail, credit card fraud, and theft. And ebay will be as legally responsible as the perpetrator.

Upcoming Changes to Feedback on eBay   Upcoming Changes to Feedback on eBay
by: Steve
       
Sat Feb 2 05:55:18 2008
So as a seller I now have no protection from scamming buyers?

geez
Upcoming Changes to Feedback on eBay   Upcoming Changes to Feedback on eBay
This user has validated their user name. by: Ming the Merciless
       
Sat Feb 2 11:07:09 2008
The only protections a seller will have are the minimal ones available through PayPal which nust got even more minimal last week. PayPal made new policy changes in seller 'protection' (log in and read them) because apparently they've been paying out too much protecting sellers. The criteria for seller 'protection' is now more difficult than ever to meet.

Of course with the furor over ebay's announcements, these PayPal changes could have been easily missed. The concurrent timing wasn't coincidental.

Ebay's contorted definitions of feedback extortion are such that they lean heavily and ALWAYS have toward the buyer and have NEVER been adequate to cover much of anything. Ebay's worthless feedback extortion policy is spelled out and discussed in other comments above.

For example, buyer tells seller after the sale, if you won't do A when A wasn't part of the listing or its terms to begin with, I'm going to leave negative feedback, 999 times out of 1000 that's not feedback extortion given the self serving, anti seller way ebays defines feedback extortion.

So called seller protections are simply shams like calling the Bush relaxed air pollution standards "The Clear Skies Initiative."

Ebay and PayPal are constantly honing and devising new ways to transfer as much financial liability onto sellers as possible to make themselves more profitable at the sellers' expense.

EBAY AND PAYPAL DON'T CARE ABOUT YOU OR YOUR BUSINESS. THEY'RE INTERESTED IN PROVIDING AS LITTLE AS POSSIBLE IN RETURN FOR EXTRACTING BIG BUCKS FROM SELLERS FOR AS LONG AS SELLERS HAVE ANY MONEY LEFT TO PAY THEM.

Ebay and PayPal aren't interested in protecting you; the fewer claims sellers win because of tightening restrictions, the more profitable they are at YOUR expense.

Some of you with more ties to the seller community than I have should try to persuade ebay's giant sellers to boycott at some point -- you know, those 20% of sellers who provide ebay with 80% of their revenue.
Upcoming Changes to Feedback on eBay   Upcoming Changes to Feedback on eBay
by: tsimms
       
Sat Feb 2 11:14:27 2008
FYI
i've tried to post a couple of times and they've just disappeared so someone is trawling this site and allowing only those comments that some higher up decides to allow-so you guys, you're not getting the whole picture, only what they want you to see. just thought you might want to know
tim
Upcoming Changes to Feedback on eBay   Upcoming Changes to Feedback on eBay
by: Dr Cam
       
Sat Feb 2 11:57:51 2008
I have two IDs with stores both powerseller level...

This is a long post but I think I have some good ideas, so please read it through!



I have a 99% + rating in both of my stores here. Which I work very hard to maintain.

I have been selling on amazon for over a year and I have noticed that sales there have been skyrocketing in the last few months while ebay sales have been stagnating. The problem with amazon is that it is only good for certain types of items, and you can't sell rare and collectible items there as easily.

On amazon the buyer can only leave feedback based on a star system (1-5 stars rating the seller overall, not on individual characteristics.) Sellers can leave no feedback for buyers at all. I am one of the few sellers who actually have a 5 star (100%) rating on amazon, most are 4.9 or less. I work hard for it just like I do for my ebay feedback.

So why should buyers receive any feedback at all here? Right now I can go and spend $10 on eBooks and have 1000 positive feedbacks and be ready to sell the Brooklyn bridge to the highest bidder. With the new rules ($1 minimum bids) it will cost a bit more to buy feedback, but it is still a major problem.

Feedback should only be for sellers, to show that they have completed many transactions and can be trusted. By giving buyers any feedback you are opening the door to massive fraud. If someone wants to start selling on ebay they should have to start small like all of us did and not be able to buy their way in. Ebay should remove all feedback  "as a buyer" and move to a star only system. That way buyers will be unable to engage in any defamation, and can simply rate the seller how they truly feel they preformed. This will also make it so that the seller cannot see who left which feedback since it is all averaged together, so this will make it even more accurate.

The 7 day repeating feedback is a bad idea. It will only facilitate scammers that have "feedback farms" where they have a pool of user ids with which they sell items to themself at the lowest price allowed. This makes it so they need less IDs to do this and can just keep doing it every week.

Ebay needs to require some accountably for the buyers. On amazon they can't buy until the user puts in their credit card. eBay should have some way of verifying users so that  people can't create new accounts so easily after being kicked off. I know this is a difficult problem, because it is all to easy to get a new credit card, or email or mailing address (P.O. box) but there must be a way! It's not so easy to legally change your name! Drivers License #s could work well too!

If ebay does go through with the proposed changes as stated, I will be emailing all buyers (as soon as payment is received not before) and explaining to them that inappropriate  negative feedback will be considered defamation of character and will result in a lawsuit for which they will have to travel to California. I may also include a letter in the box. Lets see how that inspires them to have massive confidence in ebay! I have had a few threats from buyers over the years (less than 1% of buyers but it tends to be on the highest priced items) and feedback or withdrawal is the only thing that has kept them tarnishing my near perfect record. Now the threat of lawsuits seems like the best method to keep scammers and con artists at bay.


I also have my own informational website which gets almost as much traffic as my ebay listing have been. I'm definitely looking into moving many of my items exclusively to my website and closing my store due to the store price increases. I'll still run some auctions, but many less. Of course I'll be using google checkout and not paypal on my website, because ebay doesn't seem to care about it's sellers or it would have already responded to these problems with action, rather than just having Griff tell us everythings gunna be OK.

The more money I can keep out of GreedBay's hands the better. Is $10 BILLION in profit for one year not enough!? The executives who make millions from this company DO NOT work as hard as I do and I can barely pay the rent on my small apartment which is filled with ebay items! If they want to keep making profit they have to share some of it with the workers or there will be no more eBay!

I will be withdrawing my paypal balance on the 20th as a protest and I would suggest that everyone else do the same. Why should ebay be earning even more interest on my hard earned money? Just so I can get %1 back when? I can use a credit card and get a higher % back and still have my money earning interest in the bank till I pay the card each month.


TAKE ALL OF YOUR MONEY OUT OF PAYPAL!
Lets see how they like it when they unexpectedly lose a major portion of their income! Just like we all will with these new fee changes.

I will also be participating in the general strike from the 18th-25 by not listing or buying anything on ebay and hope that you will be too. I will run several .01 cent listings on the 19th explaining why I am striking and hope many sellers will do the same.

Thanks for reading my ramblings. It felt good to get that off my chest, but the battle has only just begun! Spread the word! "email the seller" to get more people involved!
Upcoming Changes to Feedback on eBay   Upcoming Changes to Feedback on eBay
by: AC
       
Sat Feb 2 13:46:27 2008
Hmm,  the google Petition has been taken down. Gee, I wonder why?
Upcoming Changes to Feedback on eBay   Upcoming Changes to Feedback on eBay
by: Garbanzo
       
Sat Feb 2 14:10:21 2008
*sigh*  More paranoia.  Feedback for buyers is not really any kind of protection.  All it does is give an indication if a buyer might be a scammer.  But, buyers can just keep getting new IDs all the time, so it really is a useless thing anyway.  I'd rather see a solution like Dr Cam proposed.  I'd also like to see them disallow feedback until the buyer has paid for an item.  This would make eBay more like other ecommerce retailers.  

There are bad sellers and bad buyers.  Bad buyers are simply harder to control, since eBay doesn't have the same amount of information on them as they do on the sellers. If eBay really wants to be like Amazon, they should change the feedback system to match what they have, as well as adding the same buying requirements.  

But honestly, all this anger is really over the top.  The same thing happens every time eBay changes fees and such, and not much changes.  eBay doesn't owe us anything.  Yes, it would be nice if they would stop changing things and charge us less, but that's life.  Whining and calling people names is just childish.  No truly professional business people act this way.  This kind of behavior makes it that much easier for eBay to dismiss us sellers as a bunch of silly babies having temper tantrums.  Why don't you try to be productive and come up with some real solutions for making your business more profitable in this new eBay environment?

Upcoming Changes to Feedback on eBay   Upcoming Changes to Feedback on eBay
This user has validated their user name. by: Ming the Merciless
       
Sat Feb 2 14:56:27 2008
Beanie Baby: No business can flourish when it's compelled to change business plans every five minutes. If you actually knew anything about business, you'd understand that.

Simms: No one is taking posts down here. You simply have to hit post button on this page and post button on the next page sometimes before your comments actually get posted.

Google is a partner with ebay. Google agrees not file suit about ebay's banning of its payments program, and Google gets some particularly profitable rights on international ebay sites. Funny how that works, no?

Ebay suppresses free speech and always has. Nothing negative about ebay will reach anyone eyes if they can strongarm the board, or in ebay's case, control the discussion boards.

Ebay one of many corporations that are attempting to create a fascist state in which the government is run for the benefit of corporations rather than its citizens because all politicians are and will be beholden to corporations for money to get elected.

Ebay is a despicable outfit, and pressuring their corporate friends to assist in their efforts to suppress free speech is just the beginning.

Just wait until corporations destroy net neutrality.

Anyone contacting Jeffrey Fazio at the law firm I posted yesterday should tell him about this one. It's called collusion to restrict fair trade.

Upcoming Changes to Feedback on eBay   Upcoming Changes to Feedback on eBay
by: Roman
       
Sat Feb 2 17:00:56 2008
It can hardly be called a BUSINESS DEAL. All transaction involve seller-buyer interaction, why only at feedback point sellers left behind.
Upcoming Changes to Feedback on eBay   Upcoming Changes to Feedback on eBay
by: seller
       
Sat Feb 2 21:01:35 2008
See this is what makes me angry about the feedback change.Just tonight I got a neg from a stinking nonpayer and yeah they responded to the dispute so needless to say the neg will stay!

Nonpayers should not in any shape or form be allowed to leave a neg as they are a NON PAYER! Course with the stupid new changes sellers will not be able to leave a neg back stating a non payer! This is such bull!
Upcoming Changes to Feedback on eBay   Upcoming Changes to Feedback on eBay
by: Salesman
       
Sat Feb 2 21:59:26 2008
I will be taking my store to Amazon too.  eBay said they were making changes, and they have only hurt the sellers.  Their fees are too high, and their rules can be broken with no accountability.  It's time to kill their business.  I urge all sellers to boycott eBay immediately.  They will soon see that the idiots making the new rules need to be fired, and the rules need to be made by the buyers and sellers.  

Thanks for nothing eBay.  Just as any other company, you got too big for your britches, and now you will shrivel up and die a slow painful death, just like AOL.
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